Coleman-Mach Q

[NH_Bulldog]

We are at a key moment in our build schedule for the new 5th wheel and need to make a decision on whether to add the optional 13.5k second AC in the Master Bedroom. It is supposed to be a Coleman-Mach Q and will be directly over the head of the bed.

First, I understand the “Q” to stand for quiet, so I am curious how much noise it actually makes when running at night.

Second question is related to airflow since my wife is now subject to hot flashes and likes cool air movement (to be honest, she likes the bedroom as cold as a meat-locker, but I am trying to be nice). Is it possible to have the MB colder than the rest of the unit if our bedroom door is closed (so our 10 year old daughter at the opposite end of the trailer doesn’t freeze)?

Lastly, considering that the second AC in the Master is connected to the main racetrack duct system, is it feasible/possible to replace the AC ceiling assembly to one that allows us the option to circulate through the ducts, or temporarily divert into the room via a vent (like the quick cool dump vent on the AC in my current TT)?

The ceiling assembly in the factory installed units looks like it is an intake-only fixture (shown below). Thank you all in advance for your thoughts, input and expertise.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

We are at a key moment in our build schedule for the new 5th wheel and need to make a decision on whether to add the optional 13.5k second AC in the Master Bedroom. It is supposed to be a Coleman-Mach Q and will be directly over the head of the bed.

First, I understand the “Q” to stand for quiet, so I am curious how much noise it actually makes when running at night.

Second question is related to airflow since my wife is now subject to hot flashes and likes cool air movement (to be honest, she likes the bedroom as cold as a meat-locker, but I am trying to be nice). Is it possible to have the MB colder than the rest of the unit if our bedroom door is closed (so our 10 year old daughter at the opposite end of the trailer doesn’t freeze)?

Lastly, considering that the second AC in the Master is connected to the main racetrack duct system, is it feasible/possible to replace the AC ceiling assembly to one that allows us the option to circulate through the ducts, or temporarily divert into the room via a vent (like the quick cool dump vent on the AC in my current TT)?

The ceiling assembly in the factory installed units looks like it is an intake-only fixture (shown below). Thank you all in advance for your thoughts, input and expertise.

So we don't have to dig through old posts trying to find one that states "which fifth wheel you are buying".... Could you please add the brand and model fifth wheel you have on order ??? Thanks

[NH_Bulldog]

Odd, I have posted here nearly 2000 times and just now my signature doesn’t show up when I post?

Maybe it’s a glitch in the matrix?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

Odd, I have posted here nearly 2000 times and just now my signature doesn’t show up when I post?

Maybe it’s a glitch in the matrix?

Beats me. Your signature shows up now.... Glitch, maybe "electronic retribution" or who knows.... Anyway, it's there now.

The Cougar line has "racetrack A/C ducting". So both units will augment each other. You may find that at night, when it's cooler, you only need to use one unit to cool the trailer. The duct/vent in your photo does not have a "dump" feature, so iyou're right, it's only a inlet of warm air to the unit.

When you think about it, if you have a dump ceiling unit, if you're using only that unit to cool, then the rest of the trailer will have "very limited to almost no cooling air flow"...

I get what you're probably trying to do, "supercool the front bedroom" by using both units for "basic cooling" and then using the dump feature to supercool the bedroom. I don't know how that would work out with the racetrack ducting, you may find that most of the air from the rear unit will be pushed to the front unit and dump as well, which would mean "not much airflow in the rear of the trailer since most of the air from both units leaves the ducting via the dump.

Definitely something to think about, but with the racetrack ducting, your only option if you want a "bedroom cold air dump" may be to eliminate the racetrack ducting connections in the bedroom, which would also affect the roadside ducts in the bathroom and along the main cabin roadside cooling air ducts. With the racetrack ducting, things get "iffy" once you block the front "U turn" by installing a "dump feature ceiling unit"...

As you can see from these two drawings, with the racetrack ducting, air flows in a circular manner through both units or if only one unit is installed, through a "U turn" where the front unit would be. If you "break that ducting flow by not connecting the front unit, then there's no airflow through the return ducting to the rear units and no airflow through all the ceiling vents on that side....

[sourdough]

I am not intimately familiar with the Coleman line of A/C units but suspect they are very like the Dometics which I've had for as far back as I can remember....if I'm remembering correctly.

I had them install a bedroom unit on my trailer before I picked it up. It has the race track duct system and I stipulated a unit up front that had the dump feature. I'm in a similar boat as you with the DW. The main unit is the Dometic Blizzard NXT Whisper Quiet model with only 2 intake vents inside. The front is a Brisk Air II. Why they weren't the same models was my question and it irritated me but it was what they had so they could have it in time for my return to pick up so....

The Brisk Air is a ducted model and it works fine in that mode with the dump ports closed. When we want to turn the bedroom into a meat locker I just open the dump ports and in short order you can hang a beef. It still puts out some air into the rest of the trailer but if it was hot you would want both units running which works great too.

A note is that I chose the MHC because it did not have In Command. I don't know how this setup would run in that situation - I have separate thermostats.

[RJS3791RD]

We have the Coleman Mach Q in the master bedroom attached to the racetrack air system. The ac units are quiet and very livable noise level when sleeping. The master has a separate thermostat so controlling temp is not an issue. We have found that pulling two of the blade vents out completely allows maximum dump of air directly on top of bed providing maximum cooling. When combined with closing the door, you can hang meat in that bedroom.

[Bill-2020]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Beats me. Your signature shows up now.... Glitch, maybe "electronic retribution" or who knows.... Anyway, it's there now.

The Cougar line has "racetrack A/C ducting". So both units will augment each other. You may find that at night, when it's cooler, you only need to use one unit to cool the trailer. The duct/vent in your photo does not have a "dump" feature, so iyou're right, it's only a inlet of warm air to the unit.

When you think about it, if you have a dump ceiling unit, if you're using only that unit to cool, then the rest of the trailer will have "very limited to almost no cooling air flow"...

I get what you're probably trying to do, "supercool the front bedroom" by using both units for "basic cooling" and then using the dump feature to supercool the bedroom. I don't know how that would work out with the racetrack ducting, you may find that most of the air from the rear unit will be pushed to the front unit and dump as well, which would mean "not much airflow in the rear of the trailer since most of the air from both units leaves the ducting via the dump.

Definitely something to think about, but with the racetrack ducting, your only option if you want a "bedroom cold air dump" may be to eliminate the racetrack ducting connections in the bedroom, which would also affect the roadside ducts in the bathroom and along the main cabin roadside cooling air ducts. With the racetrack ducting, things get "iffy" once you block the front "U turn" by installing a "dump feature ceiling unit"...

As you can see from these two drawings, with the racetrack ducting, air flows in a circular manner through both units or if only one unit is installed, through a "U turn" where the front unit would be. If you "break that ducting flow by not connecting the front unit, then there's no airflow through the return ducting to the rear units and no airflow through all the ceiling vents on that side....

John - our Cougar has the option of a second bedroom A/C, all wiring and the wall sensors are in place. We didn't need it so it's a standard vent as built from the factory. I've removed the vent ring from the ceiling and saw that the ducting is blocked off because there is no A/C unit. My assumption is that we also have this racetrack ducting but our living area A/C is not at the end of the "racetrack", it's about 1/4 of the way forward of the rear vents that are along the kitchen cabinets. So the living area A/C blows air into the ducts and it finds its way to the open vents. The roadside vent in the bathroom works well with the bedroom A/C not in place.

As for the quietness? I can say that the living area Coleman Mach Q 15K is very quiet compared to the Dometic Brisk II (non ducted) that we had in the passport. Night and day difference. But an A/C directly above your head with a lower ceiling in the bedroom is probably a different ball game, even if it is a Coleman Q.

We have been in one or two nights in south FL where we turned on a small fan and placed it on the dinette table and aimed it up the stairs and into the bedroom to supplement the cooling. Yes, DW is having those nights too now. That small fan did the trick for us.

[NH_Bulldog]

Thank you everyone for your input.

My brother has a 2021 Fuzion Impact with the second AC and the ceiling assembly has vents that can open/close and is also ducted into the ceiling racetrack ductwork. He says it isn’t exactly quiet.

Thinking further, I believe that a good amount of noise is from the ability to directly vent into the room, the same reason many of us installed an aftermarket device or modification to eliminate the direct venting (RV Airflow, KoolRV, etc.).

John, thank you for the visual aids.

Bill, this is exactly what I was thinking of when I posed the original question. Thank you for sharing your experience!

[tallen]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

Thank you everyone for your input.

My brother has a 2021 Fuzion Impact with the second AC and the ceiling assembly has vents that can open/close and is also ducted into the ceiling racetrack ductwork. He says it isn’t exactly quiet.

Thinking further, I believe that a good amount of noise is from the ability to directly vent into the room, the same reason many of us installed an aftermarket device or modification to eliminate the direct venting (RV Airflow, KoolRV, etc.).

John, thank you for the visual aids.

Bill, this is exactly what I was thinking of when I posed the original question. Thank you for sharing your experience!

Rob, I have this setup in my Cougar, and here is what I did and the results. I added in the RV airflow system, then I put a RV softstart on the unit, I then took the blade vents and cut half of the part that goes into the vent hole off.

My reason and results.... the airflow system dropped the noise level a lot and increased the airflow a ton. The soft starts also made the unit quieter when coming on and off, please i could run it on a gen or 30amps, last 2 things, was cutting the half off them vent that goes into the vent holes. Seem to make the air flow better out the vents, and like someone already said, you can pull the vent out and it will dump a ton of cold air out of it. Good luck with the new RV.

[NH_Bulldog]

Interesting discovery today, and now I am not sure how my order will look when it arrives.

I received a dealer alert from one of the shops I had looked into previously and they just received a new 29BHL. The theater seating is totally different and is now a sofa with dual recliners and a drop down arm rest, the AC ceiling assemblies are different and now have dump vents, and the InCommand system is entirely gone, replaced by the old manual switch plate. Not sure if this is progress or not?

I guess that disclaimer on the website that materials and equipment are subject to change without notice is really true! For what it's worth, the only thing I would really miss with InCommand is the ability to remotely monitor and control the HVAC system. I got around that on my current trailer with the Micro-Air EasyTouch bluetooth/wifi thermostat so I guess that is getting pulled out of my current camper before it gets traded. One of the key reasons that the Mach-Q AC units were so quiet was because they had no quick-cool air dumps, so it looks like they did away with that feature. Maybe I will have to remove the KoolRV upgrade from my current AC and see if it will work in my new unit.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

Interesting discovery today, and now I am not sure how my order will look when it arrives.

I received a dealer alert from one of the shops I had looked into previously and they just received a new 29BHL. The theater seating is totally different and is now a sofa with dual recliners and a drop down arm rest, the AC ceiling assemblies are different and now have dump vents, and the InCommand system is entirely gone, replaced by the old manual switch plate. Not sure if this is progress or not?

I guess that disclaimer on the website that materials and equipment are subject to change without notice is really true! For what it's worth, the only thing I would really miss with InCommand is the ability to remotely monitor and control the HVAC system. I got around that on my current trailer with the Micro-Air EasyTouch bluetooth/wifi thermostat so I guess that is getting pulled out of my current camper before it gets traded. One of the key reasons that the Mach-Q AC units were so quiet was because they had no quick-cool air dumps, so it looks like they did away with that feature. Maybe I will have to remove the KoolRV upgrade from my current AC and see if it will work in my new unit.

There are a couple of recent threads about the "Cougar no longer having In-Command and Goodyear Endurance tires"... Whether that's all Cougar lines, Cougar Half Ton lines or Cougar travel trailer lines, or just specific models within some of the Cougar lines ???? At any rate, there are some SIGNIFICANT changes in the Cougar brand between 2023 and 2024.

Then, also remember that if there are no parts on any specific day to finish a build, Keystone is "famous for going next door to get the parts from Sprinter or Montana or Springdale to keep the line running".... So if there are 20 Cougar Half Ton fifth wheels built today and only air conditioner top units for 15, then the other 5 will have "whatever is sitting around on an assembly line in the next building over.....

So, that new one the dealer sent you photos of might be the "new build" or it could be "the result of what was necessary to push it out the door and call it a day"......

[NH_Bulldog]

Dang, I forgot to look at the tires. Those might be replaced day-one if they are China-bombs.

[Bill-2020]

I like the ability to monitor or adjust on in-command remotely, but I’m not convinced that it’s the best way and overall I’d rather have an analog panel. If your heart was set on some of the features you saw when you ordered it, and it arrives with some of them different, that would be disappointing. Especially if it costs you to change it (tires come to mind).

[NH_Bulldog]

I have an inquiry into Keystone and will wait to see what they say. I can live without InCommand and all its issues. I did find out that the Coleman-Mach Quiet AC units have been replaced by the Furrion Chill HE units (which at 80 interior db is louder than my generator). I ordered the SolarFlex 440 with the Dragonfly batteries and what they do to that is my only real concern aside from the tires.

[ChuckS]

You will be glad you dont have the In Command system in the long run.. Some love it.. I will take manual switches and analog tank level indicators all day long.

I also would not any Furion AC unit... Coleman is as good as Dometic .. IMO...

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

You will be glad you dont have the In Command system in the long run.. Some love it.. I will take manual switches and analog tank level indicators all day long.

I also would not any Furion AC unit... Coleman is as good as Dometic .. IMO...

I totally agree with Chuck. Through the years, electronics in any travel trailer will need repair or replacement. If it's a radio, a thermostat, a refrigerator control board, a converter/charger, then replacing that component with something similar will keep the RV working properly (or even working better).

On the other hand, looking back at the 2011-2013 "debacle with Cougar glass control centers" or even trying to locate a remote control receiver or hand held transmitter for one of the multiple systems that controlled slides, landing gear, awning deployment and a few lights on the trailers is often an impossible search.

When the In-Command system integration controls nearly all of the functions in the trailer, there is no manual backup system and that system goes bezerk, trying to find replacement components is already a challenge. I would imagine in 5 or 10 years, many (maybe even most) trailer owners are going to face the challenge of paying someone to "convert their trailer to manual switches" just so they can deploy the slides or raise the landing gear.

The RV industry is not the same as the automobile industry where multiple aftermarket companies make nearly all the parts to keep older models operational.... Other than CAMCO and RecPro, most "replacement parts for trailers older than 5 years typically come from salvage yards or from "dusty items off a service center shelf"...

Component manufacturers keep parts for their products for a few years, but even with that, we've already seen some In-Command parts that are no longer available on any market.

Like Chuck, give me manual switches and reliable components, not the "lowest bid chinese junk" any day. Sad part, to me, is that all the RV manufacturers, not just Keystone, seem to always introduce a new concept to sell "bling" hoping to increase their market share, then when the new "bling" comes along, they dump the old "bling" and people get stuck with crap they can't find parts for.... Furrion, IMO, is the "lowest bid bling" and so far, doesn't measure up to the older Atwood, Dometic, Coleman, Suburban reliability.

That's the main reason I still have an "older trailer that works properly" and not a "new model that's overpriced and filled with so much "bling" that if it stops working in a remote campground, I'm stuck until I can find parts to get it going again.....

[NH_Bulldog]

So did a bit more digging.

My order sheet shows an effective date of 2/1/2024.

All the packages and their components are detailed on the sheet, so I compared that with the current website (which is obviously now out of date).

The Towing with Confidence Package still looks good and lists the Goodyear tires, Road Armor equalizers, Road Armor pin box, Antilock brakes (new addition), etc. so that gives me hope.

The Cougar Innovation Package is the same except that it no longer includes InCommand-3 with Global Connect (woohoo!). I will see if my Micro-Air EasyTouch thermostat is compatible, and if so, will swap out whatever thermostat they installed. The Micro-Air has both Bluetooth and WIFI connectivity and that allows me to remotely monitor and control my heat/ac which is about the only thing I was liking about InCommand.

The Professional Grade Camping Package looks unchanged.

The Climate Guard Protection Package is the same except that it no longer lists the Coleman-Mach Quiet series AC with MERV residential filters (15k main area and 13.5k bedroom area), and instead lists Furrion AC units (15k both main and bedroom). The Furrion ceiling assembly has the quick-cool dump vent and like my current Dometic is likely where the majority of the noise comes from. I will likely install a KoolRV kit to solve the noise issue like I did on my current trailer.

The SolarFlex Discover 440 with dual DFE Heated Lithium Batteries looks unchanged (keeping my fingers crossed).

In summary, if the loss of InCommand and the change to the Furrion AC units are the extent of the changes, I can live with it. But I will be sure to bring a copy of my signed and accepted order sheet to my walkthrough when it hits the dealer’s lot.

Not that it would have changed my decision to buy a Cougar in the end, but I should have been a bit more diligent as I looked over the order confirmation and will be extra cautious moving forward.

[sourdough]

I have to throw in my 3 cents with Chuck and John - I totally agree. Sounds like you are coming out pretty good if that confirmation order sheet is correct.

I won't have In Command due to the issues listed above and it's one of the reasons I have a MHC vs Montana or Solitude - at the time they were both standard with In Command. The switches offer SO many benefits vs all the issues with In Command as Keystone has found out. The Micro Aire, as both you and I have, offers everything In Command offered that would be helpful (for me). Hopefully you get the Goodyear tires vs some brand of China bomb and I would be adamant they (or something as good like Carlise) were on there as they should have been.

Furrion - it's a shame Keystone has decided to start using their products for darn near everything. I've not come across anything they made that was "quality" or bore any resemblance to it. Thankfully this trailer only had the TV, stereo receiver/dvd and speakers by Furrion. I took them all out after the 1st trip and replaced it all - far, far better. On that is it possible to talk to them about putting the Colemans on there vs the Furrion as the specs said would be there when you ordered? I realize they say that they may substitute this for that but if you were insistent at some level at Keystone maybe they could find you a couple of those units "laying around" somewhere....it would be a big deal to me. Good luck but stay on them so you don't have a big surprise come pick up day.

[NH_Bulldog]

Danny, when I went back to the order sheet, it actually did say Furrion 15k AC. Based on pictures I found, it looks like the Furrion Chill HE. Aside from the brand/model change, it is coming through with the black cowling instead of white. Since the Winegard 360+ is black, and the AC is going to be black, I might as well order my MaxxAir II vent covers in black as well and keep everything the same color.

[sourdough]

If the A/C covers are going to be black I'd get the black MaxxAir covers as well - it will look better IMO. That's what I put on mine. I worried a bit about the black inducing additional heat but I've not noticed it to any degree. With 2 15K A/Cs you should be OK (I use the living area unit with a fan usually unless it gets toward triple digits.

I hope the Furrion units work well for you. I guess since Lippert acquired Furrion at the end of 2021 they are not pushing the RV manufacturers to use "their" equipment....sort of like they pushed to eliminate the Andersen hitch from competing once they came up with the Goose Box. It would be nice if they would step in and improve their quality/manufacturing processes but I doubt they did.