Air lift system X vs Y

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by RV Vacation

Who said anything about being overloaded?

Even if that were the case I would just plead "that's the industry standard and therefore it should be accepted". AmIrite?

I'm going to pile with everyone else, but you, & state with a 3/4 ton truck, even if it is a Ford, hitching up to a 17k lb 5th wheel for fulltime travel you WILL be overloaded!
If there's any doubt head to a set of scales to verify, I think you'll be very surprised at the outcome.
Regardless of the weight outcome a set of airbags do not add a single ounce of load carrying capacity, they are strictly for leveling the truck ONLY!

[RV Vacation]

Originally Posted by firestation12

Partial quote from RV Vacation:
Well guys here is an idea. Pull your loaded rig onto a scale just so the tow vehicle axles are getting weighed. Drop the trailer and reweigh the tow vehicle. Then come back and tell me if I am overloaded per your "equation" pssst you do not need CAT scales. A local sand and gravel yard will usually have sufficient scales. End of quote

I once had a friend (now deceased) who vehemently believed that putting a large fish in a bucket of water wouldn’t change the weight of just the bucket + water sans the fish because the fish was neutrally buoyant in the water. I see a simulator error in thinking, that weighing just the 2 axles while the front of the camper is is supported by the tow vehicle (not on the scale), then unhitching the camper and weighing just the truck. If RV Vacation does actually get around to humoring us, I’d like to see what the rear axle load of the tow vehicle is, when hitched up with water, propane, passengers, full fuel, a generator (if applicable) and storage compartments stocked with items he would normally carry. I’m betting the 2 rear tires of his tow vehicle will be carrying more weight than the sidewall rating. That folks is dangerous. As others have predicted, the gross rear axle rating will also be exceeded. Also not safe.

Thank you for your response Firestation. Sorry about your friend and his fish.

The topic is my rig being overloaded per an equation used to approximate the pin weight of a 5th wheel trailer. Before the equation can be used to determine an "approximate pin weight" the actual weight of the trailer must be known. AmIrite boys?

Like you Firestation, the others have assumed they know everything about me and what I pack and can say without a doubt they know my rig is overloaded because they have used an equation to calculate the pin weight of my RV. Sorry no cookie for you either Firestation because you are wrong as to the contents I carry on my RV and water ain't one. That is a good one though, and I bet the others are disappointed they did not think of that one. With or without fish.

So back to the "pin weight" being said the reason my tow vehicle is, as you all claim, overloaded. The only accurate way to determine the pin weight of a loaded trailer is to scale the tow vehicle with and without the trailer.

Weigh the rear axle you say? What makes you think I have not already done so?


So Firstation, the question being; trailer pin weight + truck contents = truck payload? Can you fill in the blanks and come up with a correct answer or Firestation, will you continue to speculate? Oh by the way, I do carry a generator/inverter weighing 65 pounds.

FYI I am not here to "humor" anybody. I posted a thread asking for opinions regarding airbags and out pop the speculation trolls.

In other news, if your handle has anything to do with being a "first responder" than thank you for your service.

Be well and safe travels.

[RV Vacation]

Originally Posted by Matty Rich

It’s normal around here for people to chime in and provide problems instead of answers to questions when it comes to tow vehicles and weight.

I’m not one of those people; so here’s my thoughts.

I personally like Air Lift on my Ram because they offer internal bump stops and the factory stops need to be removed to install the bags. Not sure how the Ford system is; but if you need to remove the bump stops I would go with AirLift.
I have DayStar cradles for the bags, so the lower portion of the bag isn’t bolted to anything. When unloaded; they move freely and allow plenty of suspension travel.
I also have the on board compressor. It’s very convenient and easy.
I plumbed a manual full line also; and something I do when I’m daily driving and not loaded, is pull the fuse of the compressor and remove the valve stem on the manual fill line.
This allows the bags to carry no pressure, and has the internal bump stops there for safety. They say not to run bags empty, but with the DayStar cradles I see no issue.
My truck rides amazing unloaded and great loaded.

Not to add fuel the fire; but I know someone who did not care about truck numbers and legal limits. He towed a custom race trailer that had a pin weight of #5000+ with a 3/4 ton and airbags. He probably towed it for 30k miles without a single issue. He now has a dually and is within limits.
In my opinion; with new model SRW truck; the limiting factor is the sticker not the equipment.

Howdy Matty and thank you for your information on the air bags. The internal trounce bumper caught my eye also. If in the event there is a bag failure the trounce bumpers will allow for continued driving. I also like the diameter of the 7500 bags and there is new improved rolled cradles to prevent wear and tear on the bags themselves. I opted for the single path onboard system having the remote control and/or phone app to operate the system.

I am not sure about running the bags empty though. I see a 5 pound limit is recommended.

As for the other stuff regarding the weight overload, I can understand the concerns. The problem being the speculations and accusations that are far from accurate.

Doesn't surprise me as this kind of thing is common on many forums. Unfortunately, it keeps many more good folks from joining in the conversation.

Thanks again for contributing to the original question.

Be well and safe travels,

John

[Matty Rich]

Originally Posted by RV Vacation

Howdy Matty and thank you for your information on the air bags. The internal trounce bumper caught my eye also. If in the event there is a bag failure the trounce bumpers will allow for continued driving. I also like the diameter of the 7500 bags and there is new improved rolled cradles to prevent wear and tear on the bags themselves. I opted for the single path onboard system having the remote control and/or phone app to operate the system.

I am not sure about running the bags empty though. I see a 5 pound limit is recommended.

As for the other stuff regarding the weight overload, I can understand the concerns. The problem being the speculations and accusations that are far from accurate.

Doesn't surprise me as this kind of thing is common on many forums. Unfortunately, it keeps many more good folks from joining in the conversation.

Thanks again for contributing to the original question.

Be well and safe travels,

John

I completely agree. It’s one thing to show concern, but just ridiculous to “know it all” and speculate. Based on the “math” that was stated earlier in this thread; my payload would be well over 4k. And I’m right at 3k. Moral of the story; everyone’s rig, setup and situation is different. Don’t assume you know it all. Most of these members are super knowledgeable and chime in on lots of stuff. But if you’re not going to answer the question; blindly assume someone’s rig/setup based off of their signature (which may not be up to date); you’re not helping. So in my opinion those are the people that need to not be apart of the conversation.

If you’re not going to help; what’s the point of adding your 2 cents just to be argumentative or debate with someone.

[markcee]

So much back and forth on this...lol. RV Vacay....simply post your yellow/white Tire & Loading driver's side door pillar and put things to rest then.

Don't know the year of your F250 but pretty certain unless it's a '23 or '24, you are stuck with a 9900 or 10K GVWR with the 7.3L engine. The 6.7 PSD can bump you up a few hundred pounds, and other packages can boost the gasser's GVWR slightly for the last two years, but other than that you are stuck with a much lower GVWR than many 1-ton truck's offer.

GVWR - Curb Weight = Available Payload, simple as that.

I considered going to a 5th wheel for my F350 (4x2 XLT shortbed, which has the 10K GVWR de-rate) and found that even using a low-end 20% pin weight I'd be 'stuck' in a max 14K GVWR 5'ver....and that would have put me right at my truck's GVWR, if I loaded the bed very modestly. I have 3,271 pounds of payload capacity.

[firestation12]

Quote from Matty Rich:

Not to add fuel the fire; but I know someone who did not care about truck numbers and legal limits. He towed a custom race trailer that had a pin weight of #5000+ with a 3/4 ton and airbags. He probably towed it for 30k miles without a single issue. He now has a dually and is within limits. In my opinion; with new model SRW truck; the limiting factor is the sticker not the equipment. End of quote

It’s hard to find adequate words to describe the person you know, and who you seem to condone, “that doesn’t care about truck numbers or legal limits”, who towed a custom race car trailer with a pin weight of 5,000# for 30,000 miles. I would question why someone with a custom race trailer would risk his investment or be careless enough to try his luck. Maybe that’s why he races? I also wonder why he wasted his money on a dually when things were working out so well with the 3/4 ton truck. 5,000# added to the truck’s rear axle would have exceeded the load capacity of any 2 tires available on the market. That he had no troubles should not be an indication it’s OK, nor invitation to anyone to follow. I have air bags on my 1 ton and agree there are benefits to having them, but they don’t give my truck super powers.

[Matty Rich]

Originally Posted by firestation12

Quote from Matty Rich:

Not to add fuel the fire; but I know someone who did not care about truck numbers and legal limits. He towed a custom race trailer that had a pin weight of #5000+ with a 3/4 ton and airbags. He probably towed it for 30k miles without a single issue. He now has a dually and is within limits. In my opinion; with new model SRW truck; the limiting factor is the sticker not the equipment. End of quote

It’s hard to find adequate words to describe the person you know, and who you seem to condone, “that doesn’t care about truck numbers or legal limits”, who towed a custom race car trailer with a pin weight of 5,000# for 30,000 miles. I would question why someone with a custom race trailer would risk his investment or be careless enough to try his luck. Maybe that’s why he races? I also wonder why he wasted his money on a dually when things were working out so well with the 3/4 ton truck. 5,000# added to the truck’s rear axle would have exceeded the load capacity of any 2 tires available on the market. That he had no troubles should not be an indication it’s OK, nor invitation to anyone to follow. I have air bags on my 1 ton and agree there are benefits to having them, but they don’t give my truck super powers.

Can you show me where I said I agree with or “condone” his decision or actions?

I was simply sharing an example of a situation I was aware of.

That’s a case where it’s pretty obvious the limiting factor is the sticker not the truck.

In no way am I saying he’s right or “inviting” anyone else to try. I would never. It’s illegal.

[RV Vacation]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I'm going to pile with everyone else, but you, & state with a 3/4 ton truck, even if it is a Ford, hitching up to a 17k lb 5th wheel for fulltime travel you WILL be overloaded!
If there's any doubt head to a set of scales to verify, I think you'll be very surprised at the outcome.
Regardless of the weight outcome a set of airbags do not add a single ounce of load carrying capacity, they are strictly for leveling the truck ONLY!

Hey Travelin Texans welcome and thank you for responding to this thread. Sorry for my delay getting back to you. I missed your post.

If you do not mind, what gives you the idea I have not weighed my rig and where did I say the airbags increase load carrying capacity? Also, have you been sneaking around my RV? How would you ever know what I carry on board as a full timer?

Just asking.. for a friend.

Be well and safe travels

John

[RV Vacation]

Originally Posted by markcee

So much back and forth on this...lol. RV Vacay....simply post your yellow/white Tire & Loading driver's side door pillar and put things to rest then.

Don't know the year of your F250 but pretty certain unless it's a '23 or '24, you are stuck with a 9900 or 10K GVWR with the 7.3L engine. The 6.7 PSD can bump you up a few hundred pounds, and other packages can boost the gasser's GVWR slightly for the last two years, but other than that you are stuck with a much lower GVWR than many 1-ton truck's offer.

GVWR - Curb Weight = Available Payload, simple as that.

I considered going to a 5th wheel for my F350 (4x2 XLT shortbed, which has the 10K GVWR de-rate) and found that even using a low-end 20% pin weight I'd be 'stuck' in a max 14K GVWR 5'ver....and that would have put me right at my truck's GVWR, if I loaded the bed very modestly. I have 3,271 pounds of payload capacity.

Markcee Welcome and thank you for responding to this thread.

2023 special order. Yes I could post the label as you suggest but why spoil a good thing. While the original question ask for an opinion on airbags, I must say I rather enjoy the direction this thread has taken. Quite the conversation I must say.

Thanks again for taking the time to post on this thread and between you and me. It is refreshing to read a comment by someone who knows what they are talking about.

Be well and safe travels,

John

[chuckster57]

Is it safe to say you got the answer on airbags?

[TXiceman]

I hope the original poster has seen that he needs more truck to carry the pinweight of the trailer. Never mind the sales brochure that says the truck can tow up to XX,000 LBS. There is a little footnote stating ...When properly equipped and that NONE of the weight limits should be exceeded.

I did have Firestone air springs on my F350 crew cab dually and I was under the truck's limits. The air springs lifted the truck where it was just off the overload set of springs.

Adding the springs in just a crutch and does nothing to increase the load rating on the truck. I see many over loaded trucks on the road with the owners blissfully fighting with it on the road.

Ken

[firestation12]

To John @ RV Vacation: Wishing you a happy Thanksgiving.