2023 Chevy 3500 SRW - Suspension Upgrade

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well John what you failed to notice or mention is the pin weight number the OP stated. GM added more information to the stickers, now is that a suggest or max rating the 2,100# pin weight?
If GM is stating that as a maximum pin weight then there is an issue!

ON EDIT: payload should be payload 3,709 - 2,100 = 2,609# of unused payload if going by the hitch weight! Now in my opinion the OP should be able to use all of that 3,709# payload as long as they don’t exceed either axle rating.

The way I read John's post is this: if your fiver has a pinweight that equals the max payload then the trailer and truck will likely weight more than the gcwr will allow. It's a common misunderstanding to think that ALL maximum ratings can be used simultaneously. Whichever max rating is reached or exceeded FIRST is a show stopper and negates the other max ratings.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by flybouy

The way I read John's post is this: if your fiver has a pinweight that equals the max payload then the trailer and truck will likely weight more than the gcwr will allow. It's a common misunderstanding to think that ALL maximum ratings can be used simultaneously. Whichever max rating is reached or exceeded FIRST is a show stopper and negates the other max ratings.

Marshall, I agree with John's post the max tow rating is not really possible. What my concern is that the OP's truck has a 3,709# payload, and according to the new GM sticker has a Maximum (?) pin weight of 2,100# for a 21,000# 5er/GN. So if the trailer weighs less can the pin be higher??

We full time and travel heavy, many heavy items in our in bed tool box, the last time we weight the truck, we were right at 10,000# ready to tow leaving 4,000# of a sticker 5,411# payload. so we used 1,411# before hooking a trailer.

In the OPs case, if they use say 600# for them and stuff, why doesn't that leave them 3,109# to use for pin weight, as long as that doesn't take them over the rear axle weight rating.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well John ...

ON EDIT: payload should be payload 3,709 - 2,100 = 2,609# of unused payload if going by the hitch weight! Now in my opinion the OP should be able to use all of that 3,709# payload as long as they don’t exceed either axle rating.

Russ,

Check your math: 3709-2100=1609 not 2609... Your math is "similar" to how all the manufacturers get such fantastic towing specs.....

You are "situationally correct" the OP can use "all the weight, up to the point he exceeds any ONE of the ratings: GVWR, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR. My point is that just because GM established a 20000 pound "Max Trailer" rating DOES NOT mean that he can "hitch a 20K trailer and believe the other ratings are OK to tow......

It simply ain't happenin'....... And if the "situation" includes a fifth wheel with 20%+ pin weight, it's even more critically important than with a lower tongue weight percentage seen with a travel trailer (in the 10-12% tongue weight range).... That "Max Trailer rating" with GM's specs is the same as with Ford or RAM's "spec sheet"... Doesn't apply to RV's with their heavier, essentially not adjustable tongue/pin weights.....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

No more like a 7,000 rpm red line and the engine defuels at 3,500 rpm! There is nothing wrong running at or near max payload.

Originally Posted by rhagfo

as long as they don’t exceed either axle rating.

Payload (redline) is totally different than gawr.

[Ramtop]

Originally Posted by Jpalmer

Several recommendations for a "quality air bag system", any suggestions on a system?
Air lift
Firestone


?

Check out Timbergrove Enterprises. Great products and great customer service. I bought a set for my truck and he answered any questions I had promptly.
https://timbergroveenterprises.com/2...ygmc-2500-3500

[fjr vfr]

Wow, now my head is spinning...lol If the op wasn't confused to begin with he will be now...lol again. Seriously if I had $10 for every time I saw someone overloaded I could afford a new truck and trailer.
Back to springs. I have Sumo springs on both my truck and trailer. Neither needed them, but I'm happy with them. Maybe 85% of the truck is used for towing so I don't worry much about the stiffer ride when empty. If I were using the truck a lot more empty then air bags would be better. I found the Sumos help to reduce the porpoising effect during road transitions. I also found the trailer rides a little better with the Sumos. We find things in the trailer stay in place better over rough roads.
Safe travels

[Jpalmer]

Yep a little. I just need to load the trailer, hitch it up and weigh it and eliminate the speculation.

A little concerned that some fuzzy math for the max weights is being used by manufacturers. The 2,100LB pin weight for the goose neck seemed weird and light. Keystone says the pin weight on my trailer is 2400 lbs. and dry weight 11,670. When my brother called keystone about his trailer weight he was told that they weigh about every 10th one. So that means there can be some variance in dry weights.

I see from these posts that figuring load ratings is not as straight forward as it seems. I suppose if my trailer is loaded and hitched up and the truck is at or under 12,100, I am good, i hope. And not to stir the pot, but the truck's rear axle rating is 7,250lbs. So I am thinking when I weigh on a Cat Scale, front axle is on the small pad up front, the rear truck axle on second pad and the trailer tires on the third (if it's long enough)? This should tell the tale. ....right?

FJR VFR - thanks for the tip on the sumo's.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Russ,

Check your math: 3709-2100=1609 not 2609... Your math is "similar" to how all the manufacturers get such fantastic towing specs.....

You are "situationally correct" the OP can use "all the weight, up to the point he exceeds any ONE of the ratings: GVWR, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR. My point is that just because GM established a 20000 pound "Max Trailer" rating DOES NOT mean that he can "hitch a 20K trailer and believe the other ratings are OK to tow......

It simply ain't happenin'....... And if the "situation" includes a fifth wheel with 20%+ pin weight, it's even more critically important than with a lower tongue weight percentage seen with a travel trailer (in the 10-12% tongue weight range).... That "Max Trailer rating" with GM's specs is the same as with Ford or RAM's "spec sheet"... Doesn't apply to RV's with their heavier, essentially not adjustable tongue/pin weights.....

Yep, it was late and that was fuzzy math.
I still would like to know is it listed as a “not to exceed “ number or if that 10% pin weight number just where you need to be to obtain Max combined weight rating?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Jpalmer

...
So I am thinking when I weigh on a Cat Scale, front axle is on the small pad up front, the rear truck axle on second pad and the trailer tires on the third (if it's long enough)? This should tell the tale. ....right? ...:

Yes, your truck front axle on pad 1, rear axle on pad 2 and trailer axles on pad 3. Get the "total weight for rig" then drive off the scales, drop the trailer, return to scales with truck front axle on pad 1 and rear axle on pad 2. Get that weight. With the two weights, you can calculate all the required information such as truck curb weight, trailer pin weight, total trailer weight, and any other combination that you might want to have... The scale is long enough for a 53' trailer behind a commercial tractor, so if an 18 wheeler can weigh, your "little trailer" will fit on the scales.... LOL

The limitation for CAT scales is that they DO NOT ALLOW any "side weights" so you can not weigh the "axle ends" at a CAT scale. If you try it, the scale master will "come unglued" !!!!! Apparently driving onto the pad with the right or left tires "off the pad" will void their certification and make the scales "not usable until recertified"....

So, stay "all tires on the pads"... When you drive onto a CAT scale, you'll see "big yellow pipes" that keep you centered on the pads... Don't try to "side step" after passing them or you'll be the "recipient of lots of anger".....

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Yep, it was late and that was fuzzy math.
I still would like to know is it listed as a “not to exceed “ number or if that 10% pin weight number just where you need to be to obtain Max combined weight rating?

My best guess, or speculation, so don't consider it as any "GM authority", but I'd guess that 2100 pounds is the maximum rating for the hitch receiver they mount under the truck, so they're using "multiple limiting component factors" not "actual combined factors" to reach their "theoretical maximum trailer capacity" not a "real world maximum trailer capacity".... I guess it would "hold up in court with the right lawyer to explain it" but you can't find a trailer that meets all their "mumbo-jumbo specs" all combined in a "real world trailer"....

It's sort of like saying, "I have a 3500 pound pin capacity hitch in my bed, so my F250 can tow a pin weight of 3500 pounds" (even though the payload is around 2100 pounds).....

[Mikelff]

Originally Posted by Jpalmer

I have a 2023 Chevy 3500 diesel HC CC SRW 4x4. I pull a 2022 HC 295rl approx. 11,600lbs. fifth wheel.

My brother has almost the same configuration but his is a Montana 3123 (12,600lbs) with a 2023 GMC Denali 2500 4x4 SRW and Timbrens on the rear of the truck.

When I hook up, the bed squats about 2 3/4". His, squats about 1". I am thinking about adding SumoSprings to both the truck and the trailer for stability.

I drove a 2001 Chevy Dually for 20+ years so the SRW is different.


Anyone added these to their truck or trailer or both? Worth it?

Thanks

I would recommend air bags for your truck. They can be adjusted on the fly if need be, based on your pin weight. As you add and remove gear your weight changes. Also the amount of water you carry can also add or reduce pin weight. Air bags can adjust for all that. Sumo Springs on the rv would be great as they act like progressive shocks and springs. They are also relatively easy to install. Safe travels!

[Rwake901]

I installed Sumo Springs on my 2022 Silverado 2500 diesel and I’m very happy with them. They only touch when loaded so they don’t affect the ride at all. Also once installed you don’t have to worry about airing them up like you would have to with air bags. I’m sure air bags would work fine too. The only difference I could see between the 2500 and 3500 is the springs. Same engine, transmission, brakes, differential, tires. If there’s any other differences I’m sure someone on here will let me know. lol

[leyland02]

I have a 2015 ford f-350 duelly and added the air lift air bags with on board compressor. Works really well. To be honest, I probably could have got by just fine with stock suspension but it did squat about 1 inch when connected to trailer. I put in 35 psi to get it back to level. When not connected I put it back to 5 psi. I installed my air bags and compressor my self with very little difficulty. Just take your time and read instruction and google is your friend.

[wayne30152]

If you’re interested, go to Wayward Waggs on YouTube. They also have a 3500 srw and use the sumo springs. They apparently love it. I would definitely log onto there channel and ask them the question.

[jsb5717]

Originally Posted by Rwake901

I installed Sumo Springs on my 2022 Silverado 2500 diesel and I’m very happy with them. They only touch when loaded so they don’t affect the ride at all. Also once installed you don’t have to worry about airing them up like you would have to with air bags. I’m sure air bags would work fine too. The only difference I could see between the 2500 and 3500 is the springs. Same engine, transmission, brakes, differential, tires. If there’s any other differences I’m sure someone on here will let me know. lol

I don’t know what all the mechanical differences are between 3/4 ton and 1 ton versions of all of the OEM’s from year to year. I do know that the one difference that matters most is the OEM published payload rating on the sticker inside your driver’s door. That difference is the net result of the mechanical differences and is really the one that matters.

I don’t know what the loaded pin weight of your Avalanche is but it could easily be in the 3500 lb range. Add hitch, gear, and people and you could easily have a 4000 lb payload requirement. What’s the rating on your truck? I hope you’re in range. But overloaded is overloaded now matter what load-assist system you use.

My last truck was a 1 ton SRW and I was still overloaded. Got the dually…problem solved.

[Rwake901]

Originally Posted by jsb5717

I don’t know what all the mechanical differences are between 3/4 ton and 1 ton versions of all of the OEM’s from year to year. I do know that the one difference that matters most is the OEM published payload rating on the sticker inside your driver’s door. That difference is the net result of the mechanical differences and is really the one that matters.

I don’t know what the loaded pin weight of your Avalanche is but it could easily be in the 3500 lb range. Add hitch, gear, and people and you could easily have a 4000 lb payload requirement. What’s the rating on your truck? I hope you’re in range. But overloaded is overloaded now matter what load-assist system you use.

My last truck was a 1 ton SRW and I was still overloaded. Got the dually…problem solved.

Manufacturer hitch weight on my 5 wheel is #2320, fully loaded when I weighed it was #2800. I don’t travel with water in the tank so I’m sure it’s a little less than that. But I am legally good on my weights.
I know you’re right that some people are wayyy overweight but the Sumo Springs for me add just a little more stability and a little weight off the factory springs.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by leyland02

I have a 2015 ford f-350 duelly and added the air lift air bags with on board compressor. Works really well. To be honest, I probably could have got by just fine with stock suspension but it did squat about 1 inch when connected to trailer. I put in 35 psi to get it back to level. When not connected I put it back to 5 psi. I installed my air bags and compressor my self with very little difficulty. Just take your time and read instruction and google is your friend.

Unless you have "leveled" the truck an inch means that you must have a very rough empty ride!
Our 2016 Ram 3500 drops about 3" when I put the 2,800# to 3,000 pin of our 5th wheel. Not concerned as that is the "Soft" part of the springs. Once loaded the truck sits level and rides great.

[GaryUT]

Originally Posted by Jpalmer

I have a 2023 Chevy 3500 diesel HC CC SRW 4x4. I pull a 2022 HC 295rl approx. 11,600lbs. fifth wheel.

When I hook up, the bed squats about 2 3/4".

My truck squats 3" when I hook up the fifth wheel, the truck is level when loaded. Personally I wouldn't worry about the squat.

If you decide to stop the squat I would recommend the Timbrens. for 2011 and up Silverado HD pickups you just pry the OEM bump stops out of the bracket and replace with the Timbren bump stops.

Gary

[Jpalmer]

Just got back from a trip and hit a Love's truck stop for an actual weight.








I'm at 11,620 lbs for the truck, 21,660 lbs. truck, trailer, and stuff. I also had my fresh water tank at 1/3 full, with an 87 gallon tank and 1/3 full I am looking at about 240 lbs in water weight.



I am close to max on truck weight, under for total combination weight.

[army1rob]

And the weight police are silenced. Your numbers are way lower than mine and I am well within specs with a Ram 3500 LB SRW. A lot of the guys on here are still towing older trailers with older trucks. The new trailers have lower pin weights and more balanced loads. The newer trucks can be close if not more to their DRW towing capacity. I was at a truck stop a month ago towing my triple axle 5th wheel and an older gentleman driving a dually with a double axle 5th wheel pulled up to the pump next to me. He thought I should have a dually and being a previous dually owner I told him I didn’t notice any difference in my SRW and my dually. He left the conversation wanting to look at newer SRW trucks. So do what’s comfortable to you.