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Old 12-13-2011, 12:02 PM   #1
geo
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Black Tank Flush System Diagram

During a little research spawned by a different thread, I found the attached diagram. I thought I would share it with the Forum!

Note the comments - " . . .not be installed where venting of water from the device during normal functioning will cause damage." Hmmm, stuck up inside a wall, inaccessible, too big to get through the small hole drilled, behind the basement wall, and above the Transfer Switch. Naw, if the valve vented water, there's no damage there . . .

FYI, I did find one place (an RV dealer in New Castle, IN) who Internet sells these valves (Vacuum Breaker Model 571), and I'm looking for others. It says it must be installed 6" (15cm) higher than anything connected to the waste tank. So, I would imagine that this little valve is slightly higher than the toilet lid inside that wall!

I'm thinking maybe looking for a spring loaded check valve to put inline. Hank, what do you think?

Ron
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:33 PM   #2
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Ron, the function of that devise was not designed by Keystone and I am sure much testing went into it before being allowed to use on sanitary systems. I would strongly consider relocating it before using something not designed for that specific function. Once the smell of sewer gas or waste-water gets into a trailer it is next to impossible to remove. It is like many things today .... if it is installed and working correctly there should not be a problem. This is probably the reason for the disclaimer about it's location and possible leaks. I really can't say what I would do if I were faced with this problem. Hank
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:50 PM   #3
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My check valve leaked the first time I used it. It is located under my bathroom sink.
After washing the black tank for about a minute I went inside the trailer to look down the toilet to see how it was spraying.
I had a huge mess in the bathroom, everything under the sink was soaked, toilet paper, towels rags, and the floor and bathmat were also soaking wet!, I ran out of that trailer so fast to shut the water off!
Luckily it was fresh water!
The dealer found that the valve was cracked when the factory installed it.
Works great now. I still go in and check it as soon as turn the Black flush water on, don't want that mess again.
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:19 PM   #4
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In the Alpine 3640, the vacuum/check valve is inside the wall between the "toilet closet" and the bedroom. Inside the toilet closet, there is a shallow linen cabinet on that wall. I have searched high and low in that cabinet trying to find an access panel to at least see that valve. Nothing. Unless I cut a hole in the cabinet, and then mount my own access panel . Now, on the bedroom side, SURPRISE! There is a 120VAC duplex socket in that wall . . . below the valve if indeed the valve is at least 6" higher than the top of the toilet.

So, let's add it up here . . . coming up from the basement . . . The Iota 50 Amp Transfer Switch . . . a 120VAC 15 amp breaker Duplex Socket . . . some RG-6 TV coax running about . . . and at the highest point, a Plastic Vacuum/Check Valve! Hmm, maybe I ought to start using WD-40 for flushing the black tank?

Hank, you are absolutely correct in pointing out the "change of design". As you can see in the diagram, not much of anywhere to relocate and still have it higher than the toilet. I have found a SharkBite spring loaded 1/2" check valve rated for 120 pounds pressure and for use on Pex. I'm thinking that this might be a "change of design" to "over-design". 120 pounds pressure is about 8 atmospheres, which translates into a fresh water column some 265 feet high! Surely that is better than six inches above the toilet lid. And, the spring keeps the valve closed when pressure (water) is not applied from the outside, thus trapping any gases inside the Pex piping. In theory, ought to work.

Ron
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:16 PM   #5
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Ron, The spring valve you mention is designed to work in a liquid environment. I'd urge you to also assure it is "air tight" since what you're trying to keep out of the fresh water system is sewer gas as well as black waste fluid.
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:52 PM   #6
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JRTJH -

I agree. Should actually be fairly simple. Put a test guage on it and run it up to around 30 pounds. I can't foresee the black tank building more than one atmosphere pressure. Probably if it did, I would have more problems than a wet transfer switch!

Ron
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:29 PM   #7
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well it just happened to me this past memorial day weekend
total flood in the bathroom and into the floor
I found the vavle under the sink and tried it again when we got home and sure enough water was spilling out of it
I hope this is not what they meant by normal venting
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:14 AM   #8
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Great guys. Sounds like I have a project in my future. Thanks for responding so quickly.

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Old 02-23-2014, 10:05 PM   #9
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That valve was also broken from the factory in our trailer. It was obvious they had super glued it. It leaked all over the place! I took it out along with the extra pex tubing. Be careful doing that. I've had black water come out of the tank flush hookup outside when the tank got full. I'm now trying to find a check valve to put inline. I would just empty the tank before it got full, but since the tank gauges never work I don't know what the level is in the tank.
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Old 03-29-2021, 02:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffwhite18 View Post
That valve was also broken from the factory in our trailer. It was obvious they had super glued it. It leaked all over the place! I took it out along with the extra pex tubing. Be careful doing that. I've had black water come out of the tank flush hookup outside when the tank got full. I'm now trying to find a check valve to put inline. I would just empty the tank before it got full, but since the tank gauges never work I don't know what the level is in the tank.
After a bit you will recognize the gurgle of a full tank.
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Old 03-29-2021, 02:54 PM   #11
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When the commode "burps" a nice little balloon of water when you flush...getting time to dump.
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Old 03-29-2021, 01:19 PM   #12
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Anyone know where this breaker is located in the sprinter 333 fks .. it seems to come in behind the shower . I have looked under the sink and in all access panels..
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Old 03-29-2021, 02:35 PM   #13
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Anyone know where this breaker is located in the sprinter 333 fks .. it seems to come in behind the shower . I have looked under the sink and in all access panels..
In some trailers it is behind the shower, pull the faucet out and feel behind it.
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Old 03-30-2021, 01:42 PM   #14
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This last post y’all are addressing is seven years old.
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Old 03-30-2021, 02:47 PM   #15
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This last post y’all are addressing is seven years old.

Naw Jim, the last post I was addressing looked maybe 75 years old. Couldn't really tell because I couldn't find a brand in the wood.......

Now Javi....we was just shootin' the breeze (and didn't look up far enough to see the post date - me).
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Old 03-30-2021, 03:42 PM   #16
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Got it👍 Adding the ten characters ☹️
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