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Old 11-17-2014, 09:20 AM   #1
Poppy's 5th Wheel
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Trailer Suspension Upgrade / Help

We love our 5th wheel. Well, for the most part anyway. I'll say this right off the bat, I would never buy another rear kitchen model. It seems most every trip we take something in the kitchen breaks. We've had this trailer for almost 4 years when we bought it new. I have replaced/repaired every shelf in all the rear cabinets which the shelves (crappy thin luan) all broke through. We now open the fridge very, very slowly to catch anything falling out before it hits the floor and breaks because all the shelves in the door and often the wire shelves come loose. This time a door shelf broke and beer bottles fell and broke the glass piece that covers the crisper leaving shattered glass everywhere. I have modified shelves in the pantry so that nothing actually sits on the new plywood reinforced shelves but rather in wire baskets.

We're tired of it. I would trade this trailer that we otherwise love if it were at all financially possible but it isn't. So I'm looking for any recommendations and advise from those who may have upgraded their 5th wheel's suspension. What works and what is a waste of money?

The trailer has Trailaire Equalizers stock from Keystone which I'm certain must be the cheapest piece they could have provided. Is it worth anything to upgrade that to an aftermarket unit? Which one?

I was big on adding shocks but I've read so much good and bad about adding them I'm unsure. There's not much room in there for a shock setup that I would see making much difference. I do really like the look of this system, http://www.rvimprovementsystems.com/index.html, but at $600???

Anyway, I was just hoping to see if anyone has some real world experience to help me decide if anything I do would actually help smooth out the ride and preserve the peace

TIA
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:18 AM   #2
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Paul -
We also have a rear kitchen in our Cougar and did have some initial "accidents" with breakage when we first took it out. Since then, we have pretty much eliminated breakage and spillage by doing the following:
1) Fridge - Purchased and installed 3 adjustable fridge bars that fit from side to side and stop items from piling up against the fridge door.
2) Microwave - We place a small cushion inside to keep the glass rotating plate from moving.
3) Rear cupboards and shelves - Placed Scoot-Guard on bottom of shelves which helps keeps dishes from moving. Place another cushion in the cupboard which has all of our dishes. Added another latch so that cupboard doors do not open.

We still have the odd glass tumbler that seems to break but for the most part we don't think of this as a major problem any more since making these above adjustments. I wouldn't hesitate buying another rear kitchen model.

I'm not sure whether or not "upgrading" the suspension would reduce the "bounce" that will occur at the rear of any RV enough to eliminate dish breakages but I would give some or all of the above suggestions a try before I spent a considerable amount of money on suspension improvements for that purpose alone.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11-17-2014, 01:46 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Poppy's 5th Wheel View Post
We love our 5th wheel. Well, for the most part anyway. I'll say this right off the bat, I would never buy another rear kitchen model. It seems most every trip we take something in the kitchen breaks. We've had this trailer for almost 4 years when we bought it new. I have replaced/repaired every shelf in all the rear cabinets which the shelves (crappy thin luan) all broke through. We now open the fridge very, very slowly to catch anything falling out before it hits the floor and breaks because all the shelves in the door and often the wire shelves come loose. This time a door shelf broke and beer bottles fell and broke the glass piece that covers the crisper leaving shattered glass everywhere. I have modified shelves in the pantry so that nothing actually sits on the new plywood reinforced shelves but rather in wire baskets.

We're tired of it. I would trade this trailer that we otherwise love if it were at all financially possible but it isn't. So I'm looking for any recommendations and advise from those who may have upgraded their 5th wheel's suspension. What works and what is a waste of money?

The trailer has Trailaire Equalizers stock from Keystone which I'm certain must be the cheapest piece they could have provided. Is it worth anything to upgrade that to an aftermarket unit? Which one?

I was big on adding shocks but I've read so much good and bad about adding them I'm unsure. There's not much room in there for a shock setup that I would see making much difference. I do really like the look of this system, http://www.rvimprovementsystems.com/index.html, but at $600???

Anyway, I was just hoping to see if anyone has some real world experience to help me decide if anything I do would actually help smooth out the ride and preserve the peace

TIA

That appears to be a good setup. I am interested in it too. Have you looked into EZ Flex equalizers.
I believe there is a thread in this forum about them.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:07 PM   #4
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There are Dexter EZFlex, Mor/ryde CRE 3000 and SRE 4000 equalizers. It would seem that the EZFlex cushions the ride without increasing travel, while the CRE and SRE both increase center spring end travel by 3" and 4" respectively. Anything that increases travel has to be a good thing, and adding shocks would be an additional plus.

The only personal experience I have is with the CRE/3000 that was standard with our 326SRX. It doesn't have an aft kitchen, obviously, but the ride seems to be acceptable as we haven't had any issues similar to the OP.

With my limited trailer experience, I would incorporate mods in steps. First, try what Festus recommended, then add CRE/3000 equalizers (and a wet bolt kit) and then add shocks as a last effort to remedy the experienced problems if they still existed.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:24 PM   #5
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Reviewing the information on both Mor/ryde systems (CRE 3000 and SRE 4000) I wouldn't be able to use either. They require 3.00" of clearance between the top of the tire and the floor of the trailer. I have 1.75"! As soon as I read that they work by adding travel, I knew I was in trouble.
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Old 11-17-2014, 07:56 PM   #6
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Poppy, We love our RK and if needed would buy another. Our's came with solid equalizers and I replaced them with Dexter EZ Flex which work similar to your TrailAire. Before doing that we did most of what Festus2 suggested, but I found that traveling with about ½ tank of fresh water calmed down the bounce the most. If the extra weight is not a problem for you, try it and see if it helps. I never had a problem with the fridge .... I just pack in extra beer so nothing can move. Travel safely, Hank
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:27 AM   #7
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Reviewing the information on both Mor/ryde systems (CRE 3000 and SRE 4000) I wouldn't be able to use either. They require 3.00" of clearance between the top of the tire and the floor of the trailer. I have 1.75"! As soon as I read that they work by adding travel, I knew I was in trouble.
Ours is the 2012 299RKS and has the MorRyde CRE 3000 system. So far, in 16K, only the bottom pantry shelf has broken through and we keep most items in Rubbermaid baskets to reduce shifting as well as the rubberized shelf mats. We do occasionally get something falling out of the fridge, but I will look into the adjustable refrigerator bars.
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:50 AM   #8
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Ours is the 2012 299RKS and has the MorRyde system. So far, in 16K, only the bottom pantry shelf has broken through and we keep most items in Rubbermaid baskets to reduce shifting as well as the rubberized shelf mats. We do occasionally get something falling out of the fridge, but I will look into the adjustable refrigerator bars.
Which Mor/ryde system do you have? Even still, if I went that route I would have to have the trailer lifted a couple inches to fit it. Mor/ryde indicates you need 3" of clearance between the top of the tire and the floor of the trailer and I only have 1.75 since I went to 16" wheels/tires. Just another expense

Thanks everyone for your input. I need to continue to research all my options and come up with some plan.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:13 AM   #9
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Our Cougar 27RKS is almost the same as Festus2's 27RKS. There are some minor floorplan differences, but the refrigerator is in the same location as are the cupboards along the rear wall. About the only significant difference that I can find between the two is the inclusion of the Mor-Ryde CRE3000 on mine. To date we've towed about 8,000 miles over some fairly rough roads and we've hit a few bumps on the interstate that caused me to stop to check the suspension and the interior of the trailer.

So far, we haven't had any damage to the trailer, no broken dishes or even the turntable in the microwave hasn't bounced off it's drive cog. We do have shelf retainers that we use in the refrigerator, but we've used them for the past 15+ years (since a dozen eggs "flew" out of the refrigerator).

We've had a number of RV's with shock absorbers and it was my intention to install the Monroe system on this trailer if we had similar bouncing damage that other rear kitchen owners had reported. That shock system is adaptable to the Dexter axles/suspension in the Cougar line.

As of now, we really haven't felt the need to invest in anything other than the factory supplied CRE3000 system.

If possible, I'd urge you to research further to see if there's a way to accommodate the Mor-ryde system into your suspension. There may be a way to extend the length of the spring hangers rather than lift the trailer. So far we've really been pleased with the tracking and towing performance with our trailer.

Good Luck
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:53 AM   #10
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Our fridge and pantry are at the rear and we have to say that careful packing the fridge and cupboards is essential so far we have had no damage in 8000 miles of towing including a recent trip along the wonderful I5 we have the CRE300 equalisers that came stock + we upgraded to Morryde Xfactor cross members and grease able spring shackles which really have no bearing on your concern. I do think that you have very little suspension travel at 1.75 inches are you sure that the suspension is not bottoming out which would possibly cause some of your concerns. Our last trailer was a mid kitchen and until we learned to pack correctly we did have some breakages

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Old 11-18-2014, 01:00 PM   #11
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I do think that you have very little suspension travel at 1.75 inches are you sure that the suspension is not bottoming out which would possibly cause some of your concerns.

Good Luck
I agree that 1.75" is tight but I don't have any sign of contact at all on the curb side. The street (slide) side does show some very minor rubbing that I suspect is more from coming off our curb when we pull our trailer out of the side yard. In other words I think the contact is only under very extreme conditions and not something that is happening when going down the road.

That being said, I would prefer to have another couple inches there if I could. As I understand it, the only way to do that would be to cut everything off the frame, weld a piece of channel stock to the frame and then reattached the hangers to the new sub-frame. The stock setup is already axle over spring so it's not like I can "flip" the axles. Besides, that would be just too much. Been there and done that!

Now we're talking even more money I just don't want to spend. That would probably cost close to a grand alone I would imagine.
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:53 AM   #12
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Check with a local spring shop they possibly have a spacer that will fit between the spring and the axle which would get you a little more space and would be inexpensive. This will only work if the axle is mounted under the spring also ask about different shackles
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:57 AM   #13
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I agree that 1.75" is tight but I don't have any sign of contact at all on the curb side. The street (slide) side does show some very minor rubbing that I suspect is more from coming off our curb when we pull our trailer out of the side yard. In other words I think the contact is only under very extreme conditions and not something that is happening when going down the road.

That being said, I would prefer to have another couple inches there if I could. As I understand it, the only way to do that would be to cut everything off the frame, weld a piece of channel stock to the frame and then reattached the hangers to the new sub-frame. The stock setup is already axle over spring so it's not like I can "flip" the axles. Besides, that would be just too much. Been there and done that!


Now we're talking even more money I just don't want to spend. That would probably cost close to a grand alone I would imagine.
Paul, I have the same clearance (went to 16 in wheels also) and the front slide side tire has rubbed slightly over ten thousand miles. If I were concerned I would have the spring hangers extended two inches and gusseted for strength. A local spring shop quoted $250. Something to think about, Hank
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:08 AM   #14
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Looking at the Mor/ryde SRE4000 equalizer, it looks like it extends down from the center hanger more than a fixed equalizer. Perhaps using it and just extending the end hangers would suffice? Might be worth giving Mor/ryde a call on this.

Mounting the axles under the springs would provide more travel, too (like my 326SRX from the factory).
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:40 AM   #15
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We have only owned 2 TT. 1996 Jayco Eagle 256 SL and our new TT 2015 Bullet 248rks. Both had rear kitchens and we never had problems but on the Jayco we put the non skid rubber mat inside the cupboards where the dishes were kept. In the Bullet we upgraded to a better mat. As far the refrigator goes, as mention in the above reply we also use the crossbar on all sheves. I would recommend that you get the double cross bars instead of the single bar sometime overkill is better than broken beer and spilt milk...
use
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:00 AM   #16
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We have only owned 2 TT. 1996 Jayco Eagle 256 SL and our new TT 2015 Bullet 248rks. Both had rear kitchens and we never had problems but on the Jayco we put the non skid rubber mat inside the cupboards where the dishes were kept. In the Bullet we upgraded to a better mat. As far the refrigator goes, as mention in the above reply we also use the crossbar on all sheves. I would recommend that you get the double cross bars instead of the single bar sometime overkill is better than broken beer and spilt milk...
use
I haven't really addressed there types of suggestions so I apologize. We have the tension bars and we have all of our shelves lined with the rubber waffle style matting since we bought this unit (our 6th RV). We also use velcro on all double cabinet doors and mini-bungee cords to a teacup screw on single cabinet doors. Those all help but stuff still gets bounced around. As I have mentioned before (maybe in the modification area) I have had to completely rebuild the shelves in our back wall cabinets with plywood as they broke through. The refrigerator breakage came mostly from the little shelves in the door that the "tabs" broke clean off dumping the contents into the fridge breaking the glass. The wire shelves I've decided were not fitting tight enough so I took the whole fridge apart, sprayed the wire shelves with appliance white paint and re-bent the ends so they now fit very tight. We will also stop putting beer bottles in the door. Oh, the sorrow Probably start carrying the beer and wine in a cooler.

I guess I am just the unlucky one. All respondents on this forum and another I posted on with rear kitchens have all claimed they never have issues [shrug].
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:44 AM   #17
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I guess I am just the unlucky one. All respondents on this forum and another I posted on with rear kitchens have all claimed they never have issues [shrug].
Maybe you should just quit off-roading your fiver.
We never said we didn't have a problem, just how we minimized it. We fix cocktails as soon as we are set up, then if there is a problem, we just don't care.
Seriously, though, maybe taking it to a spring shop could get you more travel at a reasonable cost. With less than 2", every bump is going to be jarring.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:39 PM   #18
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I put a lippert center point suspension (replaces the equalizer with an airbag and cams to hold the springs). I have a TH, so mi kitchen starts on top of the forward axle, but we have left open sodas / half full coffee cups on the counter, and usually have them still sitting there the next time we stop. I doubt it will fix your problem, but a 50-75% reduction could be nice..
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Old 11-21-2014, 11:06 AM   #19
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Poppy, we like the desert, and where most people don't want to go, we spend a lot of time in Lucern Valley, and/or California City. What I'm getting at of course are the washboard dirt roads we take to get to these spots. I'm at a loss as to why you have such a bouncy trailer. I have never ended up with anything breaking or moving even on the washboard roads?? I have noticed sense yours was built and mine, the cupboard shelves are much better built. I even carry can goods in ours.
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Old 11-22-2014, 08:54 AM   #20
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The research on this is driving me crazy. I have limited funds to invest but I know I need to do something. My problem was made when worse when I discovered I really can't do anything to modify the suspension to ride smoother until I fix my poor clearance issue.

I spoke to my fabricator (guy who did my rear racks I posted in another thread this summer) and since I only need the raise about 1 1/2 " he thinks I should just add small spring lift blocks.

Like this: http://www.truckspring.com/products/...__TC97003.aspx

That would give me 3.25" of tire to trailer floor clearance so I could then choose a suspension kit like either the SRE3000 or CRE4000 or something.

I realize the best way to raise the trailer would be a full sub-frame but cost (I'm guessing closing to $1,000 ?) and the fact I need so little has me thinking this alternative.

Thoughts?
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