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Old 12-02-2013, 03:09 PM   #1
barchak
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Furnace cycling

I have a new 2013 Laredo 303TG I just picked up on 11/23/13. It has a 30k BTU furnace. First trip out was on 11/23 and the temp dropped to 23deg. During the middle of the night the furnace was cycling. The fan would kick on, the furnace would light and hot air would come out of all three ducts. After about 10 minutes, the furnace burner would turn off and the fan would continue to run. After about 10 minutes, the burner would light again and run for about 10 minutes and shut off again. The fan ran continuously and the set temp was never reached. There was nothing blocking the return or supply vents.

I took it to the deal to have them take a look. They told me they needed to remove excess duct work and change the direction of supply for two of the supply vents. They noted an increase in CFM at two of the three registers and they are all three at about 500. They said they removed about 6 feet of duct work. This does not make sense to me. Why would a new trailer have too much duct work?

I took the trailer out last weekend after picking up ate dealer and the temp got down to 32deg. The furnace and fan did shut off during the night as it obtained the set temp. I did notice the burner cycling as before a couple of times during the night but it did shut completely off several times as temp was hit.

I read in the following article (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/troub..._problems.html) it is normal for burner to cycle on and off. I am used to working on household furnaces where they do not cycle off until the set temp is obtained.

How concerned should I be about this?

Thank you,
Ed
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #2
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Read post #8 in this thread, it'll get you started on researching how the "unit installed" building process works... Seems that Keystone's line crews install one duct assembly per run (whether the run is 3' or 33'.....

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=duct

It sounds like the duct work was restricting airflow and your furnace "high temp" switch was shutting down the furnace to prevent an overheat condition. Once the "high temp" switch reset, the furnace would reignite and continue heating the RV until the "high temp" switch called for shutdown due to overtemp again.

In normal operation, the furnace should continue to run until the thermostat is satisfied at the temp setting, then the furnace burner shuts down, fan continues to run until the furnace is cool, then the heat system remains "off" until the thermostat calls for heat again. Initially, there may be one or two cycles with short timing between heat cycles due to cold walls, furniture, etc. Once the interior is up to temp, then cycling should only occur when the thermostat calls for heat.
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Old 12-02-2013, 07:43 PM   #3
BulletOwner1
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John above is correct. The furnace produces more btu's than the existing duct work can distribute. Two options here to correct. Increase efficiency of existing duct work, remove excess, more direct routing, etc. Option 2, add another duct from the furnace. More air flow through the furnace is the cure.

In my case the furnace was up-sized as part of the "Thermal Package" but no additional ducts were added. Consequently my furnace cycles a lot, even after I improved the existing duct runs. Seriously considering adding another duct.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:02 AM   #4
Soreeyesuk
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Is it possible the gas pressure should be checked to see if it is high and the furnace is producing to much heat ?
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Old 12-07-2013, 09:25 PM   #5
Indiana Rogan
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Angry Furnace Cycles

I have a 2013 Cougar 21RBSWE with the "Polar Package". Our furnace was doing similar things. Now the Heat relay on the gas board has gone south. The furnace would call for heat, turn on and cycle off. Now it calls. the relay clicks on and off about 5 times then furnace shuts down. It is currently - 16 C where my wife is living in it and has had to bail. I am out of town working and now have to leave my job to try and fix this. There will be no way to save the plumbing now as the electric heaters she has put in can't keep up. This is yet another thing that has gone wrong with this unit. No longer a Cougar Fan with their mis-representation of a Polar Package trailer. This unit did not even have thermal pane windows that were in the brochure.'I have the unit totally skirted in with 2" Styrofoam and it was still a battle to keep it warm.
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Old 12-08-2013, 02:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana Rogan View Post
I have a 2013 Cougar 21RBSWE with the "Polar Package". Our furnace was doing similar things. Now the Heat relay on the gas board has gone south. The furnace would call for heat, turn on and cycle off. Now it calls. the relay clicks on and off about 5 times then furnace shuts down. It is currently - 16 C where my wife is living in it and has had to bail. I am out of town working and now have to leave my job to try and fix this. There will be no way to save the plumbing now as the electric heaters she has put in can't keep up. This is yet another thing that has gone wrong with this unit. No longer a Cougar Fan with their mis-representation of a Polar Package trailer. This unit did not even have thermal pane windows that were in the brochure.'I have the unit totally skirted in with 2" Styrofoam and it was still a battle to keep it warm.
That sounds like it might be the electrodes need cleaning (where it sparks). We had a unit that once every year would have to take them out and scrape on them to clean 'em.

Page 38 of this manual shows the electrodes I'm talking about. If they're all black and burnt looking, that carbon buildup is preventing the spark from happening and preventing ignition. http://www.brwholesale.com/itemNotes...ice_Manual.pdf
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Old 12-08-2013, 05:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana Rogan View Post
I have a 2013 Cougar 21RBSWE with the "Polar Package". Our furnace was doing similar things. Now the Heat relay on the gas board has gone south. The furnace would call for heat, turn on and cycle off. Now it calls. the relay clicks on and off about 5 times then furnace shuts down. It is currently - 16 C where my wife is living in it and has had to bail. I am out of town working and now have to leave my job to try and fix this. There will be no way to save the plumbing now as the electric heaters she has put in can't keep up. This is yet another thing that has gone wrong with this unit. No longer a Cougar Fan with their mis-representation of a Polar Package trailer. This unit did not even have thermal pane windows that were in the brochure.'I have the unit totally skirted in with 2" Styrofoam and it was still a battle to keep it warm.
I feel your frustration, relying on an RV as winter accommodations is not an easy thing to do. Hopefully you can get the furnace repaired and operational without any significant freeze damage to the plumbing. I downloaded the 2013 Cougar Half Ton brochure and the only reference to windows states: "Black trim safety glass windows" (That's in the Camping in style package)

There is no reference in the 2013 brochure about thermal windows. In fact, they aren't offered as an option on the Half Ton series. The only Cougar models (to my knowledge) that offer "dual pane" windows (they don't call them "thermal windows") is the Cougar High Country line and they are optional even then. There are no Cougar RV's that come "standard" with dual pane windows.

-16C is about 3F. Your Cougar should be "OK" at that temp, especially with the skirting in place, but you do need an operational furnace to keep things warm enough to prevent damage. The Suburban and/or DuoTherm furnaces found in almost every RV are manufactured by outside companies, not by Keystone. They are installed in virtually every RV built in North America. If you're still in warranty, your dealer may be able to help cover the cost of freeze damage provided he (or you) can prove that the damage was caused by the furnace failure.

You can't reasonably place the blame for a furnace failure on the RV manufacturer any more than you can place the blame on Ford or GM for a flat tire.

Good luck
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:54 AM   #8
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Make sure the exhaust isn't clogged with mud dauwber nests. My old trailer was clogged and it was kicking out on the high limit. The burner would quit, but the fan continued to run, until it cooled down and then the burner would relight. Take a flashlight and look into the exhaust port from the outside. The trailer we just picked up was this way also, I just cut and shaped a metal hanger into a tiny hook end and reached in while it was off and kept breaking them up until I was able to rake them out. This is a temporary fix until I can pull the heater and clean properly and install a screen on the outside.
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