4 tank SeeLevel tank monitor system mod w/pics

[SargeW]

So I finally got around to getting rid of the factory installed easily fallible tank sensors on the rig. I installed a Garnet, SeeLevel 4 tank monitor system. I used the existing wiring for the new sensors, and put the new panel readout over the old sensor location after removing the circuit board from the back side of the panel.

A lot of the work in putting the new system in was locating the existing tanks and prepping the tanks for the new sensors. Keystones policy of “don’t ask don’t tell” as it relates to sharing any build information with owners slowed the process quite a bit. I could get close to where the existing tanks were by observation of where the tank dumps stuck down through the bottom coroplast liner that seals the bottom of the RV. But only close. I still had to locate the where the existing sensors were to reuse the existing wires.

The fresh tank was in the front of the rig, and finding that one was the easiest. I had previously cut in an 8 inch access hatch cover at the front of the rig while I was installing a new battery monitor and running the necessary wires. I used 6” round “boat hatch” screw in hatches for access to each tank. Each hatch also had a backing plate of masonite with a 6” cutout for the hatch cover frame to mount on. This makes all sensors easily accessible in the future if necessary.

Opening that hatch I could see the side of the fresh tank, it was opaque white, and ran sideways from side to side, and was pushed back against the curb side frame rail. That left about 9” between the end of the tank and the street side frame rail. That is also where all of the wiring for the rig is run, laying loosely on the coroplast. That is also were the sensors were located on the tank, so I installed the first 6” access hatch right at the front of the tank. From there I could access all of the wiring and room to easily mount the new sensor strip.

The second tank (galley gray tank) was a bit of a curve ball for me. I expected the tank to be similarly mounted as the fresh tank, but nope, completely different. The galley tank was mounted running parallel with the frame rails in the center of the rig. My guess is that it was put that way to make room for the heater ducts that are in the floor front to back in the rig. This caused me to cut one access hole at the front of the tank in the center to access the wires, but do to the placement of the existing sensor probes, I needed to cut another access panel at the side of the tank for the new sensor. After the sensors wires were run to the side of the tank I opted to just add another hatch access plate there anyway since that is where the dump valve is located for the tank. If I ever need to check or replace it, I will know where it is.

The next 2 tanks were a PITA to access the existing sensors. Keystone mounted them in the same direction as the fresh tank, but chose to push these two tanks within an inch or so of the street side frame rail. So accessing the wiring and finding a place for the new sensor strips was a challenge. I can’t imagine what a shop would do if a rig came in and they had to access the existing sensors or replace them. It would require dropping the whole rear coroplast liner, and the tank to access the existing sensors. Big bucks. And since the tanks were pushed tight against the rail, all of the RV power wires are still running along that rail, but are now under the tanks causing quite a bulge in the coroplast. I still was able to get a 6” hatch cover under the area for a new sensor, but I had to push all the wires as far to the side as I could to get access.

The main gray tank was the worst, and then the black tank. After getting access I set about finding the wires needed that ran up to the existing tank sensor panel. I figured out the colored wires in the center of the tank on the existing probes are just just for reporting tank levels. There is a red bottom wire, and a white top wire that run to the tank monitor panel. The wires sometimes change colors between the tank and sensor panel, so I needed to ensure I had the correct wire for each tank. I have on hand a long roll of 16 gauge wire that I use as a “jumper” for testing 12 volt circuits. With the help of a set of colored test leads with alligator clips I could clip each suspected wire, then go inside and put an Ohm meter on each wire to verify continuity. Two of the suspected wires were the same color as the tank end, and two were not. It only took a minute with the ohm meter to find the correct wire for each tank.

When the SeeLevel system arrived the next day, I already had the rig monitor panel out, and easily found a positive and negative connection bar for the new monitor panel. I started with the black tank (the hardest to work with) and found a suitable location for the sensor strip, which I taped on with blue painter tape temporarily. I had previously dumped 5 gallons of water into each tank to give the sensor strip something to sense.

Using another test lead, I connected the new sensor panel lead to the blue lead from the new sensor and pushed the Black tank button. It displayed 4% fluid in the black tank. Success!

I had previously leveled the rig before starting, so the tanks would be fairly level when set up. Before sticking the first sensor, I used an 8” torpedo level to mark a reference line on the tank for plumb. I cut the sensor strips at the 7” mark, as they show up 9” long. The tanks are about 8” tall, and the tops are square, and bottoms are rounded. So the 7” strip worked out great as the sensor will sense and adjust for tank depth ½ to 1” bigger than the strip itself. To assist in mounting the strips, I used a long screwdriver with a soft rag taped to the end. I used that to press the strip to the tank without damaging the electronic elements within the sensors. I lined up the sensor with the reference marks, and starting from the bottom, place the sensor strip and smooth with the screwdriver rag all the way to the top. It’s a “one time” shot as the sensors are extremely sticky, and do not pull off without damage. Another device that came in handy was a cheap “head lamp” from Harbor freight to see up into the dark space of the bottom of the rig and still have both hands free.

The rest of the install on the other 3 tanks was similar and got easier and faster without the close quarters of the black tank.

As for mounting the new inside monitor panel, it was bigger than the old system, so I placed the panel where I wanted it to cover the old lettering, and marked the outside with blue tape on all sides. Then I traced the cut out inside the tape, about ½” inch in on all sides. The cut out was made with a Dremmel tool with a cut off wheel. I could have removed the panel for the cut, but there were 7 toggle switches on the display that all had several connectors that would have had to be labeled and marked for reassembly. So cutting it in place was fast and easy.

The wiring was simple too, all of the sensor wires attach to the blue wire on the monitor panel, the black wires from the sensors tie together and go to ground, and the red goes to a 12 volt hot.

So the prep was the longest part of the process, and the application of the sensors was pretty straight forward. I took my time, only working a few hours at a time over 3 days. The system is much superior to the basic drilled probe in tank senders that have been used forever.

On to the next mod!

[SargeW]

And a few more pics

[RagingRobert]

That's exactly how I thought it would go Sarge I wonder if it's not worth taking the coroplast off and reinstalling it after? Be a lot easier to work and check everything else out...maybe even plan/do the next reno while it's all open and no access holes needed. It does sound like a lot of hard upside down work but you soldier on Sarge Thanks for the manual and the pics, you did a nice worthwhile job

[SargeW]

I had considered that at first. But a few things I considered were removing some of the fasteners that Keystone uses under the rig are problematic to remove. Also all the wiring that lays in the bottom of the rig would drop and need to be supported the whole length of the coach to get the coroplast back on. And lastly I still would not have any access for later if there is a maintenance item with the sensor or a dump valve.

So it worked out better in the long run for me.

[MrKABC]

Congratulations @SargeW!!!!

NICE JOB. I can see why you waited a bit to tackle this, you had some logistics to overcome that I didn't since I don't have Coroplast.

You Dremeled out your panel in place? Wow. You're brave!

The See Level rocks, doesn't it??

[SargeW]

Absolutely. Working "up" in the coroplast was by far the most difficult part of the job. This was my 6th install in various kinds of rigs, but this one had the most "challenges" (at least that's the way I remember it now).

Just in time too, we are going to the mountains for the weekend with only electric 30 amp. Knowing how much fresh water is in the tank is invaluable.

[RagingRobert]

I personally would never attempt that job unless the coroplast was removed and the rig was lifted up about 7' somehow It's good to have done if your an off grid full timer I guess...those readings are important indeed. I just hope Keystone see's this thread and makes these type tank sensors standard. The majority of us I'd say have accepted the fact that the current system is more a manual just know when system Again, a nice job Sarge...curious though how you got those masonite backers up in/above/behind there and how you stuck on those one time control pads through a 6" hole with a padded screwdriver? Very brave indeed @5

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by RagingRobert

I personally would never attempt that job unless the coroplast was removed and the rig was lifted up about 7' somehow It's good to have done if your an off grid full timer I guess...those readings are important indeed. I just hope Keystone see's this thread and makes these type tank sensors standard. The majority of us I'd say have accepted the fact that the current system is more a manual just know when system Again, a nice job Sarge...curious though how you got those masonite backers up in/above/behind there and how you stuck on those one time control pads through a 6" hole with a padded screwdriver? Very brave indeed @5

You've likely been on the forum long enough to have seen this but I'll repeate it. NO ONE from Keystone, has EVER logged on to this forum. So any "hopes" of Keystone reading anything on this forum is futile.

[RagingRobert]

I actually find that hard to believe @#8 and bordering on stupid, sorry, I mean ignorant on their part How can they not want to read how their product is doing by the free feedback from here? They actually might improve on some of the things we complain about here and learn from their mistakes. This forum is like a constant free survey that companies are always pushing on us after we buy their products.
Staying on topic...what do you think of Sarge's fine work and would you consider doing that to your RV? Maybe you could pass on the "see level" system to Keystone, they probably know nothing about it

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RagingRobert

I actually find that hard to believe @#8 and bordering on stupid, sorry, I mean ignorant on their part How can they not want to read how their product is doing by the free feedback from here? They actually might improve on some of the things we complain about here and learn from their mistakes. This forum is like a constant free survey that companies are always pushing on us after we buy their products.
Staying on topic...what do you think of Sarge's fine work and would you consider doing that to your RV? Maybe you could pass on the "see level" system to Keystone, they probably know nothing about it

Keystone has a company sponsored FaceBook page where they "do what you say they sneak around doing here"....

Looking at it "logically, rather than emotionally" if Keystone wanted to have a company presence here, why would they "sneak" onto the website by falsifying a membership? Why not log on as "the manufacturer" and use the opportunity to actually demonstrate that they are listening to customers here as well as on their FB page?????

I've never seen any corporate registrations nor have I seen any IP addresses that are geo-located in the Goshen area. Seems strange that they would use clandestine methods to monitor what's important to owners of their products.....

As for the recommendation to "pass on the SeeLevel System to Keystone, they probably know nothing about it". You can rest assured that THOR, Keystone's parent company, uses that system in a number of their "higher priced motorhomes and it is standard equipment in the Airstream line of travel trailers, class B vans and was standard equipment in the Airstream motor home when it was being produced. It would be "far fetched or naive" to think "Keystone wouldn't know about that system"....

To be more accurate, most of the products used by Keystone are "industry standard in all competitors in the price range of the product lines". It's not a matter of "what is better or more reliable" as much as it is a matter of how much it changes the profit margin per unit over the current system. It's more about the profit for shareholders until the sales drop to a level where shareholders are concerned. As long as Keystone is selling trailers faster than they can build them, you won't see a change to a more expensive system that only supports the level of crap in a tank.....

[SargeW]

Originally Posted by RagingRobert

I personally would never attempt that job unless the coroplast was removed and the rig was lifted up about 7' somehow It's good to have done if your an off grid full timer I guess...those readings are important indeed. I just hope Keystone see's this thread and makes these type tank sensors standard. The majority of us I'd say have accepted the fact that the current system is more a manual just know when system Again, a nice job Sarge...curious though how you got those masonite backers up in/above/behind there and how you stuck on those one time control pads through a 6" hole with a padded screwdriver? Very brave indeed @5

Thats my problem Robert, I never accept mediocre as acceptable. That's why I have installed this system so many times before. And I have a long list of changes and additions I have made to this trailer. Nothing for "bling", just useful changes that make things easier, more functional, or just fit our lifestyle. Which explains my next major mod is to dump the factory theater seating to make seating way more comfortable. Does the existing one function? Yes. Just not very well IMHO.

And as for the 6" hatches, they were plenty big to mount the sensors. As for the modded screwdriver, it still would have been needed if the coroplast was completely removed. Just goofy building technique on Keystones part. The masonite was only 1/8" thick, so it easily slid in between the coroplast and frame without removing any fasteners. OH, BTW don't hold your breath waiting for Keytone/Thor make any improvements to the existing sensors. That would affect the bottom line.

[flybouy]

New RVs are similar in some respects to new houses. If you buy a new home in a "typical" subdivision you'll have a choice of floor plans and some limited add-ons or options. Usually the carpets, floor coverings, appliances, etc. will be similar from home to home, including building materials and methods all available with "builders beig" paint on the walls.

If you want better quality, finishes, or high end appliances then go buy a custom built house. Like RVs, you can't expect a custom home for the price of the builders special cookie cutter house. Folks that are "handy" often buy the "builders special" then upgrade it themselves at a substantial savings. It's not uncommon for RV owners to make changes as well to upgrade or personalize their rigs.

What's not rational for either RV or homeowners, is to expect a few customers to ask for upgrades for free. Odds are that the vast majority of customers would not purchase the models with the upgrades that they likely don't understand or want. What I would suggest is for anyone thinking that "they know best" what a company should do !ND how to run their business is to reach out to that entity directly as apposed to " hoping they see" a suggestion by someone posting on a social media page under an alias.

As always, JMO, YMMV.

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by RagingRobert

I personally would never attempt that job unless the coroplast was removed and the rig was lifted up about 7' somehow It's good to have done if your an off grid full timer I guess...those readings are important indeed. I just hope Keystone see's this thread and makes these type tank sensors standard. The majority of us I'd say have accepted the fact that the current system is more a manual just know when system Again, a nice job Sarge...curious though how you got those masonite backers up in/above/behind there and how you stuck on those one time control pads through a 6" hole with a padded screwdriver? Very brave indeed @5

@RagingRobert

Why wouldn't you try the job? It's not that difficult if you have basic skills with wiring. The payoff is that you get a far superior tank monitoring system that doesn't get fouled up like the OEM sensors. What's not to like?

You don't need to put your RV on a lift either. They are high enough off the ground that you can crawl right under. Since I am in CA I don't have the coroplast, it was even easier for me than it was for @SargeW. No need to cut any holes, just solder/prep/peel/stick.

Keystone isn't going to add this system as OEM, at least not in lower priced trailers. Take a look at the cheap fixtures, cabinetry, appliances, etc - you think they are going to spring for higher quality sensor system?

It would be nice if we had better OEM equipment - tomorrow I am changing out that pathetic bathroom fan that came with my trailer for a remote controlled, 10" rain sensing fan. It just takes a bit of elbow grease! And Amazon.

PS - you did want to see the finished product for my control panel - here you go!

[RagingRobert]

John and Marshall, first of all I never said they're on here sneaking around...I said it would be ignorant of them not to read what we're saying about our/their Keystone RV's which I'm sure they can do without becoming members. Secondly, when I put one of these after a comment it means I'm joking which is quite often I know When I said "they know nothing about it" I was referencing the fact that they appear not to be on here Imo it would be a wise business move to change things that don't work and include these sensors as standard equipment...they can't be that expensive when bought in bulk or at least give us the upgraded option.
Yes that was your problem Sarge and you solved it well I just don't see it worth doing for me as we glamp with full hook ups only
Looks good MrKABC...I know the actual job is not difficult...it's the crawling around under the RV that's not worth it along with the coroplast in the way. I think my RV is sort of high end with nice fixtures, real wood panel doors, all electric jacks, the winter package etc..so sensors that work like "seelevel" seems like they belong. I'm a self-employed semi-retired carpenter by trade that has become very experienced with all aspects of renovations from plumbing, electrical, flooring, taping, painting etc... a professional handyman you could say I've done some small things to our RV as well like making a new bigger dining table, making drawers work properly, shelf in bathroom, remove crown mold to cut along seem of wallpaper to peel back and repair bubbles with contact cement, replace tongue jack inline fuse and stabilizer jack fuse, a lot of caulking and roof maintenance, installed those roof vent covers and more to come I'm sure.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by RagingRobert

John and Marshall, first of all I never said they're on here sneaking around...I said it would be ignorant of them not to read what we're saying about our/their Keystone RV's which I'm sure they can do without becoming members. Secondly, when I put one of these after a comment it means I'm joking which is quite often I know When I said "they know nothing about it" I was referencing the fact that they appear not to be on here Imo it would be a wise business move to change things that don't work and include these sensors as standard equipment...they can't be that expensive when bought in bulk or at least give us the upgraded option.
Yes that was your problem Sarge and you solved it well I just don't see it worth doing for me as we glamp with full hook ups only
Looks good MrKABC...I know the actual job is not difficult...it's the crawling around under the RV that's not worth it along with the coroplast in the way. I think my RV is sort of high end with nice fixtures, real wood panel doors, all electric jacks, the winter package etc..so sensors that work like "seelevel" seems like they belong. I'm a self-employed semi-retired carpenter by trade that has become very experienced with all aspects of renovations from plumbing, electrical, flooring, taping, painting etc... a professional handyman you could say I've done some small things to our RV as well like making a new bigger dining table, making drawers work properly, shelf in bathroom, remove crown mold to cut along seem of wallpaper to peel back and repair bubbles with contact cement, replace tongue jack inline fuse and stabilizer jack fuse, a lot of caulking and roof maintenance, installed those roof vent covers and more to come I'm sure.

I thought you were using as punctuation as your posts are typically full of them and somehow I guess I fail to see the humor.

[Sloughpump]

I’m seriously impressed. Way beyond my capability. Great job sir! I had a fresh water tank replaced after discovering a screw holding a propane line was drilled into my tank. They fixed the problem replacing the tank, but cut my coroplast to install it. Now I have repeat problems with the coroplast and tape coming loose when driving. They’ve tried to correct it unsuccessfully. I don’t want to pay for a full replacement. nor does the repair outfit….. Anyway nice work!

[jvbutter01]

Originally Posted by flybouy

You've likely been on the forum long enough to have seen this but I'll repeate it. NO ONE from Keystone, has EVER logged on to this forum. So any "hopes" of Keystone reading anything on this forum is futile.

How many repeat customers could they have, and happier customers if they paid a person to spend a few hours on the board.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jvbutter01

How many repeat customers could they have, and happier customers if they paid a person to spend a few hours on the board.

That's a question for Kestone, not the forum.

[jvbutter01]

Originally Posted by flybouy

That's a question for Keystone, not the forum.

it was rhetorical

[SargeW]

Originally Posted by Sloughpump

I’m seriously impressed. Way beyond my capability. Great job sir! I had a fresh water tank replaced after discovering a screw holding a propane line was drilled into my tank. They fixed the problem replacing the tank, but cut my coroplast to install it. Now I have repeat problems with the coroplast and tape coming loose when driving. They’ve tried to correct it unsuccessfully. I don’t want to pay for a full replacement. nor does the repair outfit….. Anyway nice work!

Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, cutting the coroplast is a dicey proposition. A hole a few inches wide can be sealed up with good tape, but a big section like that is tough due to the movement up and down from the wind. There is probably cross members close to where the tank is located, so putting in some self tapping sheet metal screws with big fender washers on them may help keeping it in place. It would take a bit of labor to get it done, but it may be the only way without a total replacement.