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Old 04-14-2014, 05:16 AM   #21
americanrascal
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Hard to figure this one.

I believe mine probably rolled off the line in late 2012 even though its reflected as a 2013.

The 4 function transmitter board itself is rather pricey with the transmitter board running retail in excess of $400. (as reflected on a parts web site)
But as we all know the price doesn't speak to the quality of the component.

Maybe mine and the 2 or 3 others reflected in this thread were a fluke and the failure rate is actually low???? I dunno but it seems that maybe something might be wrong here. There was some sort of weakness in the first board I had or something in the way the circuit was charged. The new board so far (8+ months) is working OK, so who knows- maybe there was an upgrade or initially after the initial install and maybe the first board it was among just a few bad ones that slipped through QC at the electronic gizmo factory when they were built???

I wanted to post the pics I have of the failed board that I passed along to Keystone and the dealer but they are just too fuzzy and don't reveal the swollen component (small board , dark area and camera was too close to the panel)

I hope our friends here had minimal damage and get a quick fix as I did and get back on the road again soon.
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:14 AM   #22
Soreeyesuk
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Sounds like I will be fitting quick release battery terminal clamps to my cables on mine and a complete battery isolator that cuts the power to everything in an emergency.


Could of been a dangerous lesson .
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:48 AM   #23
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Agency to Contact

There is one agency that should be contacted in such event and that is the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration (NHTSA). They could determine whether yours is an isolated incident or if there are others who have experienced a similar incident. If the latter is the case then the NHTSA would issue an recall just as they do with automobiles, trucks, or any other motor vehicle or RV.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:06 PM   #24
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Let me put this out one more time in more plain words:

THE BEST SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM is to FUSE your positive battery bank lead. If you put a 60 amp fuse or breaker on the feed to your coach/house or 5er or trailer, you will not have a melt down situation caused by your batteries. One or two batteries are capable of putting out a LOT of current, and if they are shorted out that will cause a fire. Doesn't matter if through an LCI controller or some other loose connector way, the best and only way of preventing something like this is to fuse the feed line. Not expensive and not hard to do. Not too smart if you don't.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:21 PM   #25
Bob Landry
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It's interesting that a circuit board would not have some kind of fuse protection on the board itself. While a large fuse on the battery is certainly recommended, a shorted component on a circuit board could still draw enough current to cause a fire long before a 60A fuse would blow.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:33 PM   #26
americanrascal
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I am thinking about all the above plus

I like the idea of a positive battery line fuse AND a cut off. In addition the one thing that might allow me to close my other eye at night is something like this- a small automatic extinguisher mounted on the bulkhead in the compartment. A bit pricey --- but maybe worth it for that confined space?

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Fight-Pro.../dp/B00ECJ0ICK

One thing that haunts me and I question is if the components on the LCI transmitter board are subject to failure in a surge- like when the battery is reconnected???????????? Would a fuse stop a sudden surge hitting the board? Or is the battery 12 v connection at a voltage so low the board components would not be impacted. My damage (but maybe not others) was limited to the board itself. Maybe given time and more continual power it could have erupted into something larger. If its not an issue I'd appreciate letting me know so I can cross that one off my worry list.(sorry my electrical ignorance is showing)

But a small automatic extinguisher might give some additional peace of mind - AND put out or forestall a more significant fire??
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:05 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltBennett View Post
Let me put this out one more time in more plain words:

THE BEST SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM is to FUSE your positive battery bank lead. If you put a 60 amp fuse or breaker on the feed to your coach/house or 5er or trailer, you will not have a melt down situation caused by your batteries. One or two batteries are capable of putting out a LOT of current, and if they are shorted out that will cause a fire. Doesn't matter if through an LCI controller or some other loose connector way, the best and only way of preventing something like this is to fuse the feed line. Not expensive and not hard to do. Not too smart if you don't.
Do you have one you recommend or suggest?
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:54 AM   #28
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I would have phoned insurnace co.from the dealers lot and informed them what happened. They all have fire investigators and might be more on you side in case of is the trailer safe or not and repairs done that are safe and complete. Just me thinking this out, what ever gets done, I would have someone else look it over,(as a 2nd opinion) even if it cost me money before I used the trailer again. Your 100% right, that could have caused a death. Also advise NHTSA as others have said. The dealer may do it also.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:06 AM   #29
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We own a 2013 Keystone Cougar 5th wheel model 331MKS. It is 11 moths old. Yesterday my wife and I left for a 3 day weekend camping by the Pacific Ocean in Washington State (about 2 1/2 hours from our home). When we got to the campground, we started setting up. The rig was only on 12V battery power. I had not yet connected to shore power. When I pushed the button to lower the landing gear, nothing happened. I tried the remote control, and nothing happened again. Thinking that the battery may have discharged, I went to get the power cord intending to plug it in. The cord was in the storage area in the front, under the hitch, where the battery is. When I opened the door, immediately SMOKE was billowing out. Then I saw the FLAME. It was coming from the circuit board above the battery.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I immediately got the fire extinguisher. After using it several times, the flame kept coming back. I called 911 for the fire department. While on the phone with 911, they asked about propane on board. The propane tanks are right next to the area burning. I immediately removed both of them. All I could think of was the possibility of an explosion. The dispatcher asked if there was anything else nearby that could burn. I said "yes, it is connected to my truck which is full of diesel." I could imagine everything going up in smoke. I turned off the battery, turned off all the circuit breakers, but the flame kept coming back after I kept using the fire extinguisher.

My wife went for the campground ranger. I finally emptied the fire extinguisher and the flame came back. I had nothing else to try, so I reached in and pulled the wires out which were all melted at and around the circuit board. The fire finally went out. By the time the fire department came, it was out.

The camp ranger told us that he had never seen anything like this before since it was not plugged into 110. Since the trip was ruined and since the warranty is good for a few more weeks, I drove the rig to the dealer (about 2 1/2 hours away). I called them in advance. Initially they sounded like they didn't believe me.

When I got to the dealership, 3 men came out to look. They said that they couldn't believe what they saw and that they had never seen this happen before. They took pictures. Our 5th wheel is now at the dealer. They said they will be talking to Keystone on Monday to see what next steps there are.

I am sharing all this:

1. To alert fellow 5th wheelers about this, particularly anyone with a 2013 Keystone Cougar 331MKS. This could have resulted in serious injury or even death. What would have happened if this fire started in the night? The bedroom is directly above the compartment that was burning. We could have been killed.

2. The dealer said this is the first time they have ever seen this. Maybe that is true (particularly for that particular dealership), but perhaps this is a bigger or pervasive problem. The staff at the dealership said that the circuit breaker or fuses between the battery and the circuit panel that burned had not done anything. Clearly that is a huge problem if the safety devices do not work when they should.

3. I think it is important that fellow RVer's inform others of such hazards. Perhaps Good Sam Club or other agency tracks this kind of serious problem. I did lodge a concern with Consumer Reports already. I don't know if there is a state or federal agency that should also be notified.

4. I don't know what the resolution with Keystone and the dealership will be at this time. Perhaps there is some type of advocacy that is available to help us.

BOTTOM LINE: If this can happen to us, it could happen to anyone. We were fortunate that no one was hurt or worse. But, maybe the next family will not be so lucky.

I appreciate this opportunity to share this scary and worrisome situation with all of you.
After reading this I'm thinking of putting a small compartment door (like the outdoor shower type) on the outside and moving the battery cutoff switch to this location. Sounds to me like the circuitry they use to control the jack stands remotely is not able to handle the current required to raise the trailer under load. I do not have the remote feature but may consider doing this in the future. In my case my electronic background would allow me to do it with proper current components and heat sink control along with proper fusing or circuit breakers. Have not decided whether to do RF or infrared remote and it would only be for the jack stands at this point.

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Old 04-15-2014, 10:34 AM   #30
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Back near the beginning of this thread I wrote that I'd just finished installing an air conditioner (stick house) 60 amp fused disconnect box and used one leg for the positive battery bank lead. These are available from big box and other hardware stores and are under $20. You've also got to get a few feet of 4 gauge cable, electrical tape and some terminals for about $10. Takes a few hours to install. This also gives you a disconnect method for your batteries.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:12 PM   #31
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Something to keep in mind with fuses and circuit breakers is that you don't want a fuse or C/B that will allow more current than the wire size and length will handle. With A/C it's not critical since protection is based on load, but with DC voltages, the wire size and length of the run must be considered. It's OK to protect large cable with a small C/B, but not the other way around. This is one of those instances where bigger is not better and size does matter.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:16 PM   #32
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I've been a volunteer firefighter for a little over 10 years, and we've had quite a bit of training regarding propane tanks. It would take a lot of heat to make a tank explode and that seldom happens. First they would vent, and if the tank was in an enclosed space that would indeed be quite dangerous. I would be more concerned about all the toxic fumes from the plastic and other materials burning. You have to ask which is more important, your trailer or your life and health. The trailer can always be replaced.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:20 AM   #33
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I've been a volunteer firefighter for a little over 10 years, and we've had quite a bit of training regarding propane tanks. It would take a lot of heat to make a tank explode and that seldom happens. First they would vent, and if the tank was in an enclosed space that would indeed be quite dangerous. I would be more concerned about all the toxic fumes from the plastic and other materials burning. You have to ask which is more important, your trailer or your life and health. The trailer can always be replaced.
While propane tanks would have to be involved in a direct fire for a pretty good while to explode, they will explode. I, too, have had extensive firefighter training in my career in the electric power industry, and the risk of leaving a tank in a fire zone is the potential for a BLEVE (Boiling Liquid, Expanding Vapor Explosion). In that case, the closed container does vent off fuel, and as the fuel vents, the liquid level in the closed container continues to get lower and lower. Flame impingement on the metal tank starts to weaken the metal in the area where there is no longer liquid, eventually causing it to rupture. That is when the huge BOOM occurs and the tank becomes flying shrapnel. I think the OP did the right thing getting the tanks away from the fire zone if he could do so safely.
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:06 PM   #34
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What is the latest on your problem

I would like to hear from rmcspeterson about how this fire issue was resolved by Keystone.

Thanks,
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