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Old 10-19-2014, 11:49 AM   #1
Lawdogs
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Unusual Tire Wear!

Started to have usual tire wear on my 2014 Cougar 327 RES 5er. The front passenger side tire on the trailer was wearing from the outside in. The tire was feathering. (And yes, tires are inflated to 80 psi and lug nuts are torqued to 120 lbs before the trailer ever moves.) Now that I noticed the wear, it appears that tire is visibly toed in (or, is it psychology). I went to the dealer where I bought the trailer to ask what I need to do, to get the issue fixed. They gave me a date when I could drop the trailer off and suggested I contact Lippert. When I contacted Lippert, they suggested I contact Keystone as the trailer was still under the 1 year warranty. Called Keystone and they told me to take the trailer back to the dealer.
Dropped the trailer off today but did some documentation before I did so.
First thing I did was weigh the trailer. Did not want them to come back and say that it was an over loaded trailer that caused the problem. See the attachment: weight ticket.
Trailer and truck weighed. Trailer and truck loaded with normal camping load. Axles on the trailer are rated at 5200 lbs. Combine axle rating of 10400 lbs. Scale weighed trailer at 9420 lbs on the axles.
Curb weight of tow vehicle is 7700 lbs (full tank of fuel). Add two occupants (300 lbs), two dogs (135 lbs) fifth wheel hitch (150 lbs), miscellaneous items (15 lbs) estimated weight of tow vehicle is around 8300 lbs. Calculated weight of the trailer (as weighted) is 11,800 lbs. Trailer rated to 12,135 GVWR as indicated on manufactures’ sticker on the side of the trailer.
I also used a straight edge to show about 1/4 of an inch of toe in. Also added pictures of the depth of the tread using a tire depth gauge. Pictures were take of tire from the exterior and interior side to show that there were no scrubs, rubs or marks. These tires have never been curbed. If it was caused by hitting a pothole I would think it would have caused a more of a toe out issue.
I think I have done everything I need to plead my case.
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:51 AM   #2
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more photos

Measurement of the tire tread. 7/32 of tread on the inside of the tire and 4/32 of tread on the outside of the tire.
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Name:	Depth gauge measurement of outside tread on the front tire on the right side.  Measurement is ap.jpg
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:54 AM   #3
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Picture of the tire

Exterior and interior pictures of the tire. Never curbed or abused.
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Name:	Interier picture of the front, passenger side tire.  Same as outside picture.  No scrubs, rubs o.jpg
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Old 10-19-2014, 12:14 PM   #4
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There will be a form that the dealer will have to obtain from Lippert. On that form will be a generic schematic of a trailer frame and the two axles. The service department (tech) will have to take and record a series of precise measurements on that form. Once it is filled out, Lippert may determine the repair if any. I have done a few and the measuring part doesn't take that long, but I have seen forms rejected and new measurements be required.

I hope your issue gets resolved to your satisfaction, but understand it may take a while.
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Old 10-19-2014, 03:00 PM   #5
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Would hope that it is not a battle. Hopefully they will just take care of it. Good luck.
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Old 10-19-2014, 05:32 PM   #6
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I'd have to ask if you really thought Keystone would suggest any option other than to take your trailer to the dealer? That would be the start for any repair attempt, for "Keystone's agent (dealership)" to assess the problem and report their findings. Seems like the logical thing to do, doesn't it?

I would question why, before even discussing the issue with the dealer or hearing their plan for repair/replacement, that things have to be confrontational? Sometimes it seems like customers want to "come out swinging" even if there's no fight to attend.

How about we all wait and see what the dealership, Keystone and possibly Lippert do before we start putting on the boxing gloves, eh?
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Old 10-20-2014, 03:47 AM   #7
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If you read my post, you would have read that I started at the dealership first, then started to get shuffled around ( was told to call Lippert first ).
The title of my post was meant to be a little sarcastic humor. I guess it failed. As far as the gloves coming off...when I spoke to the dealership about my issue, I asked them about axle alignment (not knowing the reason for the issue). First words out of there mouths "fifth wheel axles can not be aligned". What is the purpose of the alignment plate on the correct track system?
When ever I come up against something new that I don't know much about, I start doing my research. Left the dealership and went to another RV service center. This service center stated that they could fix the trailer but they where not approve to do Keystone warranty work. Called a spring and trailer shop, and described my issue. Without even discussing bring the trailer in for an assessment, I was told I would need a new axle. Searched this forum for every post that dealt with tire wear and axle alignment. By the way, all of these activities were being done while I was waiting for my call to be answered by Lippert and Keystone (left a message). I get it, they are busy!
As far as sitting back and waiting to see what happens...no way!!! I have been in law enforcement for 23 years and I am a active reservist in the military. It is not in my nature to just sit back and go with the flow. I pray for peace but prepare for battle. All to often, I see people sit back and wait to see what happens (like sheep). It usually does not bode well for them.
It was and is my intention to update this post as I work through this issue. If all goes well, I will be the first to sing the praises of my dealership, Keystone and/or Lippert. If not, I hope to provide insight on how I resolve the issue.
I would never go out hunting squirrels with a howitzer, but would have one just in case I need one. No, I don't hunt squirrels...I'm just saying.
I apologize if I ruffled some feathers!!! It was not my intention.
Thank you Chuckster57 and GaryWT for the information and words of encouragement.
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:02 AM   #8
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It appears to me that the LEO mentality has kicked in. It will be interesting to see what the arm-twisting-to-results ratio is going to be.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:09 AM   #9
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That is my point exactly, Bob. It sure looks like this guy is already in the "You're wrong and this is what you're going to do to make me happy" mode. All before his dealership even has an opportunity to examine his rig to see what's wrong with it.

He will find that by pushing his dealership, proving he is "a wronged customer and knows some stuff" isn't going to get his trailer repaired any faster or instill in the dealership a sense of "meet the warranty obligations" any more effectively.

My thoughts, for what they are worth, is to "CHILL DUDE", let the dealership look at your trailer and give you their repair plan. THEN, if you don't agree, discuss the options with them, and take action as needed. Don't post "battle plans" on some internet site in preparation for some "big operation" that may well not even be needed.

As for hunting squirrels with a howitzer, before even lugging that thing into the woods, it's first a wise action to do a little scouting to get the lay of the land and to see if there's even squirrels in that area to hunt. Take the trailer to the dealer and let him do his job, you may be surprised.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:30 PM   #10
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Looks like you have Correct Track system, should be a pretty easy fix. Not a big deal, Tire wear, and tire replacement may be your may fight.
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:46 PM   #11
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Wow! " Law Enforcement Mentality"
If they only knew...........
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:05 PM   #12
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battle?

i don't see a battle, work with the dealer.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:16 AM   #13
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start out by demanding and a combative attitude. Note in the customer line in the service dept." this guy is nuts appointments 4 weeks out next time" Try being nice!
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:34 PM   #14
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It can indeed be aligned. I had a tire on the front axle on one side wearing on the outside and a rear tire on the other side wearing on the outside.
Got new tires and had it lined up. Now perfect. I think it came from the factory that way.

Weird things come out of factories. I had 3 load range E 16" tires and 1 load range D 16" tire. I gave them a choice of 4 new tires the same or find one to match the other 3. Took a few weeks but I got one.
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:15 PM   #15
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I also worked in law enforcement for over 30 years. It is much easier to come in low key and escalate if need be. Hard to back down once you come in with your guns blazing. The guys going in "prepared for war" were the guys that always got in fights and called for "cover." Us low key guys had to respond to help them out and clean up the mess they created.

A few pushy cops give us all a bad name.

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Old 10-24-2014, 07:54 PM   #16
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If you read the OP's first post, and take it in its totality, I can see where he isn't "coming in hot" but rather with all his facts and documentation, PREPARED for battle.

Just the observations of a 25+ yr retired LEO.
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Old 10-25-2014, 05:19 AM   #17
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Spoke with the dealership yesterday. All of the measurements have been completed. It took a little longer due to the fact that Lippert sent a second form asking for additional measurements. At some point in time, the dealership will let me know how Lippert wishes to proceed. As of right now, my trailer is sitting in my driveway ready for driveway camping.
Thank you Chuckster57 for your last post. I have reread my post several times and tried to figure out why folks think I am looking for a confrontation. I believe my title might have started me off on the wrong foot. It was my attempt at sarcastic humor. BIG FLOP. If a moderator has the ability to change the title, I would ask they change it to something like: Unusual tire wear.
No where in my post have I bad mouth my dealership, Keystone or Lippert. I have a very good relationship with my dealership. I only stated that I believe I received some misinformation. I have bought 4 trailers from them in the past and have been happy with all 4. I have often gone to the dealership to just shoot the bull with the staff (dealership is only 4 miles from the house).
I have not twisted any arms or threaten anyone in hopes of getting repairs done and done fast. Nor am I being pushy with the dealership. I am realistic enough to know these things take time. There are a lot of trailers needing attention at the dealership. They are doing their best to address everyone's issues.
No where in my post have I laid down battle or operational plans. I merely did some documentation before taking the trailer to the dealership. The servicing personal actually thanked me for putting together the package. She said the technician would appreciate the additional information.
I agree that pushy, over zealous police officers give the rest of those in law enforcement a bad name. I do not believe that being forward thinking and prepared to answer questions puts me in that category. Officer presents and thoughtful conversation has gotten me out of more confrontations then I carry to thing about.
I have never demanded anything from the dealership, Keystone or Lippert. As stated before, I will sing their praise or post the steps taken to resolve the issue. And, I am not nuts...my mommy had me tested.
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Old 10-25-2014, 05:22 AM   #18
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdogs View Post
Thank you Chuckster57 for your last post. I have reread my post several times and tried to figure out why folks think I am looking for a confrontation. I believe my title might have started me off on the wrong foot. It was my attempt at sarcastic humor. BIG FLOP. If a moderator has the ability to change the title, I would ask they change it to something like: Unusual tire wear.
No where in my post have I bad mouth my dealership, Keystone or Lippert. I have a very good relationship with my dealership. I only stated that I believe I received some misinformation. I have bought 4 trailers from them in the past and have been happy with all 4. I have often gone to the dealership to just shoot the bull with the staff (dealership is only 4 miles from the house).

I have not twisted any arms or threaten anyone in hopes of getting repairs done and done fast. Nor am I being pushy with the dealership.
No where in my post have I laid down battle or operational plans. I merely did some documentation before taking the trailer to the dealership. The servicing personal actually thanked me for putting together the package. She said the technician would appreciate the additional information.
Moderator's Note: As requested, the title has been changed to "Unusual Tire Wear".
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Old 10-25-2014, 11:58 AM   #20
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Nothing wrong with being prepared and documenting every thing you do and having a plan. In fact having plan A, B and just in case C. Those who have not needed to think about going to work today and living to see tomorrow may or may not understand that point. But, it is how you make it to retirement. Just putting this out there comparing the local ford dealership and the Keystone dealership. Ford service dept. works 6 days a week from 8a to 12p. Has 20? vehicles being worked on in the shop. Keystone 5 days aweek, 8a to 6p. looked like they handle about 5 trailers at a time. The RVs will just take longer to fix based on numbers. How each gets factory repairs OKed I do not know.
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