Okay Texas folks... Straight from the horse's mouth

[jtyphoid]

Originally Posted by Javi

I just sent this email to them ...

Recently I emailed customer service with a question concerning the class of license required to pull a travel trailer for personal use.

I was a bit confused about what was required because the language in the Driver's Handbook and on the DPS website seems to conflict in information between classes and I would like clarification if possible.

My wife and I are interested in purchasing a 5th wheel travel trailer which has a GVWR of 12, 500 pounds to be pulled with our Ford F-250 with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds (GCWR 22,500 pounds).

The part I'm confused about is whether the GCWR is the controlling factor or if the GVWR of the towed vehicle is the controller. The website and the handbook both state that for a Class A non-commercial license... A vehicle or combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 lbs. or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) towed is in excess of 10,000 lbs.

My GCWR of 22, 500 is below the 26,001 pound threshold, but the trailer is also above the 10,000 pound limit.

However the Class C doesn't fit either...

1. A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that are not included in Class A or Class B; and

2. A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of less than 26,001 lbs. towing a trailer
not to exceed 10,000 lbs. GVWR or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 lbs.

Class B has the same restriction to less than 10K for the towed vehicle..

This is my quandary... My GCWR is 22,500 and my trailer is 12,500 GVWR; how do I proceed... I don't fall within the Class C 10K limit but I'm not at the 26K GCWR either.

The email I received in answer states (see below) which further confused me.. What do I do?

Thanks...

Javi,

Did you ever hear back from the DPS on your second email?

[gearhead]

I wuz kinda wonderin too. But I didn't want to step into it again!

[jtyphoid]

Originally Posted by gearhead

I wuz kinda wonderin too. But I didn't want to step into it again!

The DW and I decided to just go ahead and get the exempt Class A. It just seemed simpler than trying to argue with a LEO about it.

I did hear of one TX driver who got a ticket. If I recall correctly, he got it dismissed by showing up for his court date with his new Class A.

[Javi]

No I haven't, been busy but will pursue this further..

[bsmith0404]

Javi,

Just wondering if you have heard anything back yet. I have been reviewing this some more and the more I look through the TX regs the more I "convince myself" that nothing is required.

The point that keeps jumping out at me is the GVWR vs GCWR. Everything in the TX handbook and website for non-CDL (CDL exempt) uses GVWR. They refer to combinations of vehicles, but never use GCWR. The way I read/understand this is that it is the GVWR of the tow vehicle that needs to be over 26,000 pounds to require class A or B. Class B if the trailer is under 10k, class A if it is over. Since our trucks are well under 26k GVWR, we should fall under class C (not included in Class A or B).

If I look at the GVWRs on my vehicle none of them say more than 26,000 lbs. TxDPS is very aware of the difference between GVWR and GCWR. Since GCWR is a standard term, I think they would use it if the intention was greater than 26,001 GCWR.

Since they say operators of recreational vehicles driven for personal use are exempt from CDL, but may require class A or B license, my personal opinion is that is referring to the motorhome/large truck drivers towing trailers. The tow vehicle is in excess of 26k, so class A or B depending on the weight of the trailer.

I think they have confused themselves with their explanation or lack there of and others who try to read into it. Since they use GVWR instead of GCWR, I tend to go with what is printed in black and white.

[Javi]

I've been talking to individual W&M officers; but waiting for the fervor of the general election to die down before pursuing this through the upper channels in hopes of getting a written, concrete decision from DPS.

The general census among the weight guys is that they're not going to stop you and check your license and weight stickers, but if you are stopped for another violation you are subject to being ticketed for improper license and you could be shut down until someone with the proper license shows up to drive the rig home or you drop the trailer. In their opinion the trailer being over 10K GVWR is the trigger.

Some wording shows the word "OR" and other printings show "AND" The actual statue seems to contradict the driver's handbook and the DPS website information site as well as most of the officers I've spoken with.

Here is the actual statue as cut and pasted from this link . http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...htm/TN.521.htm

SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES



Sec. 521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or
(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.




Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;
(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:
(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or
(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and
(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.
(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.253, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by:
Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 161 (S.B. 1093), Sec. 20.017, eff. September 1, 2013.




Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; and
(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.


Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

[bsmith0404]

Interesting, based on that wording I can drive a 40' diesel pusher with a GVWR of 45k lbs and tow a 9k lb trailer with a class B license, but need a class A to drive my 13k GVWR truck towing any trailer with a GVWR over 13,001 lbs. So, in that example, someone with a GCWR 28k more than me can get away with a lower class license....I think someone made a mistake in the wording when they wrote that. And they wonder why people get confused.

[hankpage]

(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.

When the text includes this statement I would think it is referring to a commercial license and not "Private" and "Not For Hire" use. But then again, none of these regs seem to be clear no matter where you look or who you ask. JM2¢, Hank

[sourdough]

When we were buying our trailer I just went to visit the DPS trooper at their office here in our town. I told him I was buying the RV with a max. weight of 10,000lb and pulling it with a Ram 1500. He didn't mention trailer weight or any of that. He said I was well below 26k lbs so I was good to go. Since I would be stopped by a trooper and not the weights guys I went to him. If I'm stopped, and I hope that never happens, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!! Then again, as muddled as the various TX documents are, you never know how the guy stopping you will interpret them. Hope they give Javi the straight scoop when they get time.

[outwest]

I hear ya. You never know how the officer involved will interpret stuff. I got stopped once in Houston by a city cop because car didn't have a plate on the front. Thing is, the car was tagged in Oklahoma and Oklahoma only puts tags on the back. When I tried explaining that to him, he replied, “that may be the rules in Oklahoma, but you're in Texas now”. I had to convince him to call dispatch to get it sorted.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by outwest

he replied, “that may be the rules in Oklahoma, but you're in Texas now”. I had to convince him to call dispatch to get it sorted.

That's why I'm glad I only have to comply with the rules of the state I reside in, Ca. In my case. Went through numerous states in '09 with a dually and big fiver, never pulled over, just shocked at tolls.

[sourdough]

outwest

Same situation happened to me. Had just bought a new car in NM where I lived. They put a paper tag in the rear window while I waited for the DMV to get my new tag to me. I was in Dallas and got pulled over for no tag even tho he had seen the paper tag in the window. When I pointed it out it was much the same reply you got; you're in TX and that paper tag means nothing here - you could have stole it for all I know. Showed him my name on the paper tag, sale date etc. Showed him the sales documents and pointed out that the car was registered in NM and complied with NM laws; not TX. It was an uncomfortable 15-20 minutes. I think state troopers are more aware of laws than local officers but those kinds of moments can happen anywhere I'm sure.