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Old 07-25-2013, 09:26 AM   #21
bigjr
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I drove a long way to buy my 5er so I was kind of in a hurry but my dealer was in no hurry on my PDI mine was used it was freezing outside. He pulled the unit inside he loaded up all the tanks filled the fresh water ran every possible devise on the unit and washed and waxed her. He made me walk through every step in the proses. Then at the end he wanted to show me how to winterize the camper. I guess it really does depend on the dealer as far as the unit its been fairly solid sure minor things here and there but nothing that left me stranded. I know some of my buddy's I camp with have alot more expensive units and they have just as much trouble.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:28 PM   #22
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I would agree that there is a lot of sub standard quality work out there. I've seen a lot of it in my own house when I upgrade or repair things (though I bought a used house and expect it). Ive seen it in new trucks I've bought (it was new and in five yrs have maybe 10-12 items needed attn). But that doesn't make it right or ok. That doesn't mean it's the standard or should be the standard of craftsmanship. I work in the service field as a technician and maybe it's just me. But I like taking pride in my work and making sure when I'm done the job is done. I strive for first time fix. I might be one of those guys that other techs get annoyed with because I take the extra time to run wire with slack so they don't pinch, or rub. Or tape around contacts that could contact something and cause a short. I prefer to do the best job I can. I still think to myself, I bought a new camper, not used. With used I can understand a certain amount of repair items within the first 3-4 mths depending upon how the last owner/owners took care of it. But at new I expect very few repair items. I know there will be some, we are human and things happen. But 30 plus is a lot for a new anything! Now my dealer has been fair to work with and has repaired everything I've brought to their attn that I haven't fixed myself already. I can't complain about them other than the time it takes them to repair things. That a different story. In the end, and big picture of things I do like my camper. But I'm not thrilled with the quality of work and will most likely not in the future buy keystone because of this. I will look else where. But I feel the OP was feeling frustrated as I was months ago and needed to vent. I felt that I would share my story with him to let him know I feel that pain as I'm sure many others do too.
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:40 AM   #23
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I feel your pain. We have experienced many of the same problems on our Sprinter. None of the issues have been overwhelming just frustrated by poor craftsmanship.
* nothing is predrilled and many of the cabinet frames were cracked by running screws in at harsh angles.
* trash left in the cabinet bases
* missing rivets holding the awning frame to the side wall.
* step treads not parallel with one another.
* wood chips left everywhere.
* extra sealant dripped all over the roof.
* exposed wood on the underside by the propane tanks.
* bedroom slide light would not work, wire wrapped around drive tube and pulled apart.
* TV was mounted 3/8" out of level.
* None of the exterior welds had an once of paint on them.
The list goes on but I have to say we have an OUTSTANDING dealer in POCONO RV. They have addressed every issue so far and have made us very happy. So far, I am grateful that Keystone has backed their product but I wish they would address their quality control procedures which would help them avoid posts such as these.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:33 PM   #24
Jim7411
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My first travel trailer was a Keystone Cougar 29BHS and it was a very nice trailer. When we decided to go to a 5th wheel and a bigger camper we went back to keystone and ordered a brand new 2013 avalanche 341TG. Well, I have had nothing but problems with it and 99% of the problems were/are caused by poor quality control and the workers who built it. The list:
* All Cabinets poor varnish. 1 coat is not enough the end grain on every visible piece of wood is dull and dry.
* Scratch in one door another cracked
* 3/4 decking used under the bed as a base corners square and sharp and they used two pieces and they didn't even line them up, they were off by an inch.
* Left outside speaker not working ...bad wire crimp
* Hot water heater not working on gas...bad crimp and plug not pushed tight on the circuit board.
* Refrigerator not working ... bad crimp on the 12v going to the circuit board.
* 12v converter not working .... two blown 30 amp fuses...possibly caused by all the loose wires and crimps.
* Used the wrong wire to wire the contactor from the Automatic Transfer Switch to the customer hook up.
* Wire for awning motor routed wrong being pinched so awning wouldn't close all the way.
* 1 1/4 corrugated PVC tubing to fill fresh water tank sagging about 10 inches, not supported between cross members.
* Front motor for the jacks 1 bolt not tight and the other not even started.
* switch for the rear stabilizers put in crocked and broken.
* Main TV dead on first trip.
* Firing strips cracked and broken because holes were not pre-drilled
* Missing piece of trim in the outdoor kitchen.
* Rear sink drain plumbed to black tank vise gray
* Still investigating but, I think they forgot to vent the rear gray tank.

There is probably more that I have not found yet. This is only my second camper and I made mistakes. I bought late in the fall and it arrived at the dealer in the winter. I choose a crappy dealer and I didn't inspect it close enough when I picked it up. Some of the problems (fridge and converter) didn't appear until I actually trailed to our first trip. The water fill pi$$ed me off because I need my water tank first time out and I thought the tank was full and the gauge was broken. Normally when the water comes shooting back out at you it's full. Nope not when the fill line has a long sag in it and the weight of the water makes it sag more.
The first morning we woke up and the whole trailer was dead. No 12V because of the converter and no fridge even after I found the converter and the two blown 30 Amp fuses, so off to a local fleet farm for fuses.
Not a Happy Camper. Of all the things listed above I have fixed everything except the doors and cabinets. I'm just concerned about what is next. Looking at the quality of the worker that assembled my trailer makes me sick. Little things like say a group of 8 wires 3 on one side of a drain pipe and 5 on the other, wire loom 2 feet to long just left dangling. I guess the worker thought no one would ever have to take the panels in the storage off!!!! Ummm unless there are blown fuses in the converter!
Bottom line I will never purchase another keystone... the Avalanche is supposed to be a step up... i'm not seeing it.
If you're a Good Sam member, you might get them to go to bat for you. There's nothing like bad publicity to get a manufacturer to get off their butts and do what's right. It's the RV Action Line in Trailer Life magazine.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:57 PM   #25
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Said solo long to Keystone myself . . .

I had a couple unpleasant situations that required talking with the Keystone folks on our former 2011 Raptor toy hauler, but they showed little interest in demonstrating their customer service side.

The first item was fairly costly but I paid up even though we were still under warranty. The second event would have cost them perhaps 15 bucks and a very cheap way to keep me satisfied along with my business but they failed on this one also.

In my final communication with Keystone I basically told them I would vote with my dollars on our next RV and I did! Got rid of the Raptor and bought a nearly new 2011 Jayco Pinnacle fifth wheel a couple months ago. What a difference in workmanship.

Jayco is a family owned manufacturer and seem to have a more customer friendly approach. I found the level of coldness and matter-of-factness in Keystones communication astounding.

Oh, I see I need to change the picture below . . . pity. Still have the truck, however.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:22 AM   #26
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and the sig ...


I didnt have many issues at all with my Sprinter 255RKS .. in fact none this year. I rather have been very happy with it ... so I am very concerned with the condition that my 333MKS will arrive in when i read posts like this ... however i will be giving it a thourough going over. When we first got the trailer on the first couple shakedown trips ... we found mickey mouse stuff and they fixed them without problem. They would order parts and when the parts arrived we booked a time(within days) to get things in and switched out. Will see how the next trailer comes .. it will be here today or tommorrow and we will be PDI'ing ith the day it arrives.

I hope you get your problems worked out with your trailer so you can enjoy whats left of the summer ... only a few months left of camping
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:47 AM   #27
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RV Consumer Group!

Anyone thinking of spending over $30k on a car would be looking at reviews and Consumer Reports, wouldn't they? If someone would buy a home, wouldn't they have a home inspector check it out before signing? Keystone makes products that can be good, so-so, and have problems. Only way to find out is to inspect before buying. These folks rate very stringently on long-term usability. We bought a used Montana even though their ratings weren't but average, because we did a very, very thorough inspection and found little to worry about for the way we wanted to use it. The inspection guidelines came from guess who! I don't get anything from RV Consumer Group, but they are the most brutally honest outfit there is!
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:00 PM   #28
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. The inspection guidelines came from guess who! I don't get anything from RV Consumer Group, but they are the most brutally honest outfit there is!
WaltBennett:

Do you have a website that our members could go to and have a look at the reviews of RVs conducted by this group? Our members would, I think, be very interested in reading the results of some of their "brutally honest" reviews. Thanks
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:39 PM   #29
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WaltBennett:

Do you have a website that our members could go to and have a look at the reviews of RVs conducted by this group? Our members would, I think, be very interested in reading the results of some of their "brutally honest" reviews. Thanks
Festus (& the collective group),
There's an annual membership fee required to view the RV Consumer Group info. http://rv.org/member.html

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Old 08-06-2013, 02:56 PM   #30
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Terri -

Thanks for the heads up on this group. It might be a valuable source if you are considering buying a new RV but not one that we would be promoting on this forum because of the required membership fees. But if you are considering joining, just be aware, as KanTC pointed out, there is a membership fee involved.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:10 PM   #31
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I had a couple unpleasant situations that required talking with the Keystone folks on our former 2011 Raptor toy hauler, but they showed little interest in demonstrating their customer service side.

The first item was fairly costly but I paid up even though we were still under warranty. The second event would have cost them perhaps 15 bucks and a very cheap way to keep me satisfied along with my business but they failed on this one also.

In my final communication with Keystone I basically told them I would vote with my dollars on our next RV and I did! Got rid of the Raptor and bought a nearly new 2011 Jayco Pinnacle fifth wheel a couple months ago. What a difference in workmanship.

Jayco is a family owned manufacturer and seem to have a more customer friendly approach. I found the level of coldness and matter-of-factness in Keystones communication astounding.

Oh, I see I need to change the picture below . . . pity. Still have the truck, however.
Okay, changed my picture and signature . . . ahhh, feels good.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:53 AM   #32
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Had Several Brands

I have owned Coleman (1 unit), Starcraft (1 unit), Palomino (2 units) (all the preceding were PUPS), Gulf Stream (1 unit), Prowler (2 units), Keystone (3 units) and Jaycos (2 units) and they all had problems of one sort of another. The most problematic was the Gulf Stream Innsbruck. The least problematic was the Coleman Colorado...not much could go wrong with it. The least problematic travel trailer was the 1996 Prowler. You become adept at fixing the small issues after awhile and you learn not to stew about the other issues. I have bought from from four different dealers and they have ranged from great to mediocre. No matter what unit you buy a great dealer is the best asset. I have never been fortunate to be able to afford a top end unit but I have read enough RV forums to know that they have some problems as well. Just MHO.
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:35 PM   #33
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We have a 327RES and on delivery the dealer swapped out the AC as the cooling fins were dented. I swapped out all the screws on the AC cover from rusting cheapos to stainless steel. We also had the plastic surround on the door window replaced as the first one was stained. A couple of other minor issues finish the list. They also completed the first winterizing free of charge on the unit. All in all after 3 years, DW and I are very happy with the unit and the dealer. On the trip we are currently on, I had to replace the convertor which doesn't make me happy. I optimistically hoped I would get 7 years out of it at least. But given its made in China...well, go figure. Oh....we also bought a gel foam topper for the bed, which has made a huge difference. I accept that this rig rolling down the road, many of which are not great, is gonna have issues that I will deal with.
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Old 08-10-2013, 03:21 PM   #34
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For me it was not so much the problems encountered with our former Keystone Raptor because I took care of most myself. What struck me the most was the unfriendliness of the Keystone staff I communicated with. Mind you, I never initiated discussions with Keystone, either over the phone or email, in a negative manner or tone. Their responses were defensive, cold and very "corporate". So, as I said in my earlier post, I voted with my dollars and went with Jayco. Who knows, something could go south with our new rig and we're back to square one.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:06 PM   #35
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I guess I was lucky with my purchase of a Keystone product (knock on wood) as the PDI tech and I were going through the product, we (both him and I) found issues that were repaired/replaced on the spot. If your unlucky enough to purchase from a large dealership (one out of Langley, Kelowna, called ... Supercenter comes to mind) they don't do PDIs a quick tour with the customer to point out how this or that works, is all you get! Its up to the customer to bring it back for warranty work, that's there business motto!
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:50 PM   #36
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@st8tshooter

I would think most of the bugs are worked out of your trailer by this point. I am almost convinced a person is better off buying a almost new for this very reason.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:07 PM   #37
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@st8tshooter

I would think most of the bugs are worked out of your trailer by this point. I am almost convinced a person is better off buying a almost new for this very reason.
st8tshooter hasn't signed onto the forum since February 2, 2014. Chances are he won't see or respond to your comments anytime soon.
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:37 PM   #38
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No doubt the quality control should and could be better, but I think I would be more upset with the dealership. I spent 4 hours or so (not rushed at all) doing my PDI with the tech beside me the entire time. They made a specific point to introduce me to the owner who stopped what he was doing to spend 15 minutes with me talking hitches. He is at the parts/service section most days and readily available. I have been very lucky with my Alpine, but I am very confident my dealer would fix everything on your list or at least be my advocate back to Keystone.

I would recommend you keep them as the focus of your dissatisfaction and force them to engage. Good luck with your repairs.
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:33 AM   #39
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I have went through a lot of electrical issues on many campers in the past and my new 2014 Cougars is not much better. I have found and fixed many poor crimped connectors around the battery and circuit breakers in the front. The belly skin is a huge one-piece unit or I'd have it off looking around in there for other issues. I'm just hoping that there are no "blanks" left in the holding tanks to foul up the drain valves, been down that road too many times!!
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:49 AM   #40
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The sad thing is that these quality control problems are everywhere in the RV industry, regardless of mfg.

Parents had a 1984 Avion (looks similar to Airstream, but axles and suspension on it was built better). One day they smelt a burning smell. They investigated it and the box where the power came in was undersized, with the wires crammed into it and a loose connection in there to boot. This was under one of the beds. It could have easily turned into a large fire and killing them. Another time returned to the RV to find an outlet had caught fire and melted, luckily the fire didn't spread. The wire connection to the outlet was a solid wire, rather than stranded wire, and going down the road it had loosed and created a short. It had other issues that cropped up as well, including frame integrity issues.

Just from talking with other RVers and browsing rigs at trade shows, fairs, etc., I've seen a variety of problems on assorted brands of trailers that were new or fairly new, ranging from cosmetic, to life endangering.

So far, the only electrical issues I've come across on our Vantage is the 12V fuse for the water pump had a loose connection (just had to tighten the connectors it plugs in to) and they put a 20A fuse on the jack, when the mfg. calls for a 30A fuse. But, I haven't thoroughly examined the electrical on this rig yet.
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